Discerning "why" Seekers come

[Wade]

Forgive me and I don’t mean to get off topic, but from the AC perspective I would like to mention the current receptiveness of “seekers”. Many Nazareans are still very raw from recent communism, many members who lived through it will view outsiders with a certain amount of distrust. There have been many instances of infiltration into churches because some of our Nazarean churches refuse to register with the governments and due to our beliefs of not taking oaths or bearing arms, members were constantly targeted and imprisoned as recently as the late 80’s. So there’s a lot of hurt that is still being held onto, however it is at the expense of potential seekers.
That being said, there are still a lot of new believers without any background that are coming and staying. Most say they are attracted to the joy and unity they witness. Some even are attracted to the “anti-establishment” stance many churches take.

What do you mean by "Nazareans" or "Nazarean churches?

Years back we bought a travel trailer from an older couple that said they were part of the Church of the Nazarene. Nice people - Delbert paid for insurance for the trailer for six months for us. They've even send a text message about once a year asking how we are doing.

I don't know about spelling but you said communism so I am likely completely confused...

Could you help me out in understanding what you mean?
Thank you

[Sudsy]

I don't intend to sound fault finding or looking for disappointments in anyway.
It's more like a recovered alcoholic.
Some get to where they never seem to have the urge ever again even when around it.
Some need to stay away from any temptation. Others are just repulsed by the thought of it.

Either way usually they really don't care to put themselves in a position around it if they can.


So when the church or church member(s) are partaking in what could be a temptation for a newcomer is there some helpful suggestions in dealing with this?

To me, as a newcomer, which I take to be a follower of Christ, this is where we must learn to live by our own convictions regardless of what other Christians do that we consider as inconsistencies and/or areas that could tempt us to do likewise. It is more about what Jesus wants me to do than it is about how others serve and live for Him.

As a church member receiving newcomers, we are to be careful that we don't 'do things in their face' that are their convictions and may cause them to stumble. I also don't believe we are to live our lives to the expectations of others, including newcomers. History has proven the mess this causes. There is a delicate balance here, and much wisdom is required in pursuing living according to our own convictions and at the same time not living in a way to tempt others to sin.

The main thing is to keep our eyes on Jesus. He alone lived perfectly. Read the first part of Romans 14 and be careful not to fall into the trap of judging others. For receivers of newcomers, follow the last part of Romans 14 as best as possible to be open to helping newcomers and new believers when they are bothered by what others do.

[Karstan78]

Forgive me and I don’t mean to get off topic, but from the AC perspective I would like to mention the current receptiveness of “seekers”. Many Nazareans are still very raw from recent communism, many members who lived through it will view outsiders with a certain amount of distrust. There have been many instances of infiltration into churches because some of our Nazarean churches refuse to register with the governments and due to our beliefs of not taking oaths or bearing arms, members were constantly targeted and imprisoned as recently as the late 80’s. So there’s a lot of hurt that is still being held onto, however it is at the expense of potential seekers.
That being said, there are still a lot of new believers without any background that are coming and staying. Most say they are attracted to the joy and unity they witness. Some even are attracted to the “anti-establishment” stance many churches take.

What do you mean by "Nazareans" or "Nazarean churches?

Years back we bought a travel trailer from an older couple that said they were part of the Church of the Nazarene. Nice people - Delbert paid for insurance for the trailer for six months for us. They've even send a text message about once a year asking how we are doing.

I don't know about spelling but you said communism so I am likely completely confused...

Could you help me out in understanding what you mean?
Thank you

Nazareans/Nazarenes are one side of the faith started by Samuel Froehlich in the 1800’s, the other being the Apostolic Christian Church. When the faith spread to the English speaking world the literal translation of the German church name is “Evangelical Baptist” so they chose Apostolic Christian to avoid confusion... obviously it’s probably worse because we are constantly adding in that we’re not Pentecostal. There was a split over facial hair at turn of last century and the members with close ties to Europe added Nazarean on the end because the Europeans call themselves Nazarenes. They changed the spelling of Nazarene to Nazarean to avoid confusion with “Church of the Nazarene” which was already established in North America.
Interestingly enough, there are churches in Germany and Switzerland which are also from Samuel Froehlich who call themselves “Gemeinschaft evangelisch Taufgesinnter-Altmennoniten“ which is translated as Evangelical Baptist Old Mennonites and they are in communion with the German side of Apostolic Christian Church in the US and all these sides share the same statement of faith, but split on legalistic matters.

[Wade]

Forgive me and I don’t mean to get off topic, but from the AC perspective I would like to mention the current receptiveness of “seekers”. Many Nazareans are still very raw from recent communism, many members who lived through it will view outsiders with a certain amount of distrust. There have been many instances of infiltration into churches because some of our Nazarean churches refuse to register with the governments and due to our beliefs of not taking oaths or bearing arms, members were constantly targeted and imprisoned as recently as the late 80’s. So there’s a lot of hurt that is still being held onto, however it is at the expense of potential seekers.
That being said, there are still a lot of new believers without any background that are coming and staying. Most say they are attracted to the joy and unity they witness. Some even are attracted to the “anti-establishment” stance many churches take.

What do you mean by "Nazareans" or "Nazarean churches?

Years back we bought a travel trailer from an older couple that said they were part of the Church of the Nazarene. Nice people - Delbert paid for insurance for the trailer for six months for us. They've even send a text message about once a year asking how we are doing.

I don't know about spelling but you said communism so I am likely completely confused...

Could you help me out in understanding what you mean?
Thank you

Nazareans/Nazarenes are one side of the faith started by Samuel Froehlich in the 1800’s, the other being the Apostolic Christian Church. When the faith spread to the English speaking world the literal translation of the German church name is “Evangelical Baptist” so they chose Apostolic Christian to avoid confusion... obviously it’s probably worse because we are constantly adding in that we’re not Pentecostal. There was a split over facial hair at turn of last century and the members with close ties to Europe added Nazarean on the end because the Europeans call themselves Nazarenes. They changed the spelling of Nazarene to Nazarean to avoid confusion with “Church of the Nazarene” which was already established in North America.
Interestingly enough, there are churches in Germany and Switzerland which are also from Samuel Froehlich who call themselves “Gemeinschaft evangelisch Taufgesinnter-Altmennoniten“ which is translated as Evangelical Baptist Old Mennonites and they are in communion with the German side of Apostolic Christian Church in the US and all these sides share the same statement of faith, but split on legalistic matters.

Evangelical Baptist Old Mennonites - that clears it up...

Is there somewhere one could read the statement of faith?

[Karstan78]

“We Believe
We believe that the Bible has been inspired by God, and is the complete and infallible Word of God.
2 Timothy 3:16, 2 Peter 1:20, Revelation 22:18-19

We believe that there is one God, without beginning and without end.
Revelation 1:8, Micah 5:2

We believe that God is a trinity — Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14

We believe that Jesus Christ is God incarnate. He was born of a virgin. He lived a sinless life. He died on the cross in the place of the sinner, and His shed blood is the atonement for our sins.
John 20:28, Isaiah 9:6-7, Hebrews 1:1-8, Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23, John 8:46, Hebrews 7:26, I John 2:2, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Ephesians 2:13:20

We believe in His bodily resurrection and His ascension to the right hand of God, and that He will make a personal return to earth in power and glory.
1 Corinthians 15:4-8, Matthew 25:31, Acts 1:9-11

We believe that all are sinners and lost, awaiting the judgment of God, but God is not willing that any should be lost.
Romans 3:10,23, 2 Peter 3:7-9, Romans 11:32

We believe that the sinner may have salvation by repentance toward God and faith in Jesus Christ.
Acts 2:38, Acts 20:21, Romans 10:8-13, Hebrews 7:25

We believe that a saving faith will result in regeneration by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God without which there is no salvation.
John 1:12-13, 3:6-8, 16-17, Ephesians 5:26-27, 1 Peter 1:22-23

We believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, by Whose indwelling the believer is empowered to live a Godly life in spiritual unity with Christ.
John 1:33, Acts 8:16-17, Romans 8:2-17, John 14:23, I Corinthians 3:16, 12:13, I John 2:6

We believe that both the saved and the lost will be resurrected; the saved unto life eternal and the lost unto eternal damnation.
John 5:28-29, I Corinthians 15:51-58

We believe that under any and all circumstances, we should speak the truth, and should not swear — obeying the commandment of Christ: “Swear not at all; but let your communication be Yea, Yea; and Nay, Nay. . . ”
Matthew 5:34-37, James 5:12

We believe that government is ordained of God to enforce law and order and to prevent evil works. Government should, therefore, be supported and obeyed. Laws and ordinances — local, state and national — are to be respected and conscientiously obeyed, except when to do so violates the commandment of God. The call to military service, likewise, is to be respected and obeyed, but with the limitation to non-combatant service, as taught by Jesus Christ; “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.”
Matthew 5:44, Romans 13:1-10, I Peter 2:13-15

We believe that God now commands all men to repent and be baptized and that immersion is the scriptural mode of water baptism, but WE BELIEVE that baptism should be administered to those alone who have believed on Christ, and have been converted by Him, who have indeed died to sin and have experienced a spiritual rebirth.
Matthew 28:19-20, John 3:3, Acts 2:38; 26:20, Romans 6:1-13, Acts 3:19, II Corinthians 5:17

We believe in the exercise of discipline by the church in order to deal with the presence of sin in the lives of it’s members.
I Corinthians 5:1-13, II Corinthians 2:5-11; 5:14-18, II Thessalonians 3:6; 14,15, Matthew 18:15-17, Hebrews 10:24-26, Galatians 6:1-2, Titus 3:10-11, I Timothy 5:20

We believe that the Great Commission of our Lord Jesus Christ is an invitation for everyone to live a life of abandonment to Him Who loved us and gave Himself for us — surrendering His personal ambitions and possessions in an unreserved committal to take the proclamation of the Gospel throughout “all the world to every creature.”
Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15, Luke 24:47, II Corinthians 5:18, Luke 14:26-27, 33, Luke 5:27-28

We believe that the gift of eternal life is a present possession of every true disciple of Jesus Christ, and that nothing nor anyone can take it from him; but, that it is a realistic possibility, however, for a true believer, once saved, of his own free will to no longer “continue in the faith” but instead to apostatize, “depart from the faith” return to sin, and consequently forfeit the eternal life he once possessed.
I John 5:11-13, Romans 8:35-39, Acts 14:22, Hebrews 3:6, 12-14, Romans 6:16, II Peter 2:1-22, Matthew 25:24,30; I Corinthians 9:27; 10:1-12, I Timothy 1:18-20, 4:1-3, Revelation 2:10, 3:5, John 3:15-18, 15:1-7

We believe that “the bread and fruit of the vine” in Holy Communion, symbolize the body and blood of Christ. Communion is served to members of the fellowship only, following self-examination.
I Corinthians 10:16, 21; 11:17-32, Luke 22:7-20

We believe that a veil or head covering should be worn by sisters in the Lord during prayer and worship, as a symbol of their submission according to God’s order of creation.
I Corinthians 11:1-16”

For more information you can go through the below site.
Http://www.accncosprings.com/about-us/

[temporal1]

Wade and Karstan, very helpful. thank you. a lot to take in.
Karstan, do you veil?

[Karstan78]

Wade and Karstan, very helpful. thank you. a lot to take in.
Karstan, do you veil?

The church I attend and most of the churches worldwide cover full time. It seems most of the “English” churches of North America cover out of respect for the church service, not because of conviction. These covers are very small doilies and have been likened to “band aids”

My wife covers full time except for sleeping, which is fine with me even though I was brought up with my mom and sisters all covering including while they slept because our church taught that Jesus will come “as a thief in the night” and to be prepared for that meeting.

[Sudsy]

Karstan78, since we wandered off topic, I noticed you mentioned not being Pentecostal but you also believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit as stated in your SOF. Do you understand that as a separate experience or experiences after being born again ? And if so, what is the evidence of this baptism ? Are unknown tongues involved in this baptism ?

I read the history on your church site. Quite interesting. It just is hard to believe that Christians would divide over cultural differences regarding wearing a mustache. I guess that was just too much to tolerate in a newcomer.

[temporal1]

Wade and Karstan, very helpful. thank you. a lot to take in.
Karstan, do you veil?

The church I attend and most of the churches worldwide cover full time. It seems most of the “English” churches of North America cover out of respect for the church service, not because of conviction. These covers are very small doilies and have been likened to “band aids”

My wife covers full time except for sleeping, which is fine with me even though I was brought up with my mom and sisters all covering including while they slept because our church taught that Jesus will come “as a thief in the night” and to be prepared for that meeting.

thank you. i found this page on your above link:
The Headcovering
http://www.accn-toronto.org/more/the-headcovering

i do not see a description. do veil styles vary with different churches or groups?
don’t let me be a pest.

[Karstan78]

Karstan78, since we wandered off topic, I noticed you mentioned not being Pentecostal but you also believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit as stated in your SOF. Do you understand that as a separate experience or experiences after being born again ? And if so, what is the evidence of this baptism ? Are unknown tongues involved in this baptism ?

I read the history on your church site. Quite interesting. It just is hard to believe that Christians would divide over cultural differences regarding wearing a mustache. I guess that was just too much to tolerate in a newcomer.

Hi Sudsy,

I’m sorry it really did veer off didn’t it? Definitely not Pentecostal and honestly I don’t really know anything about their beliefs. In reference to the baptism of Holy Spirit, after a soul has been washed (water baptism) the elder/s will lay hands on the converts signifying the “sealing of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 8:17) they also pray “Let it be according to their faith” and that they may use the gifts that the Lord has given to serve and glorify Him. We don’t do speaking in tongues as we generally believe that was for the times during the Apostles, however we understand God can bestow any gift to a receiving soul and we shouldn’t judge *if* it does happen...

Here’s an excerpt of the article

“We believe that the Christian, through the Holy Spirit, lives in fellowship with God. The believer also lives with other believers by joining the body of Christ and the local church through water baptism. Following water baptism the convert receives the sealing of The Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands by the elders and prayer by the congregation (Ephesians 1:13-14). He contributes to the building of the body of Christ with spiritual and material gifts, for the Holy Spirit bestows upon each believer such gifts as He wills for the edification of the church, the body of Christ (Romans 12; 1 Corinthians 12:11-13; Galatians 5:22-24). Nurtured through The Word, fellowship, prayer and praise, the believer grows more Christlike, glorifies God, and is a witness for Him in everyday life (Acts 1:8).
We believe that the Holy Spirit empowers each believer, fills their heart with love for all, and moves them to practice Christian discipleship (Acts 2:1-21). Believers therefore attain maturity as they yield to Christ and obey His Word. In Christ the believer puts off the former way of life with its sinful affections and lusts. He is no longer enslaved to sin and Satan. His body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and should not be defiled or abused in any way (1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19). The fruit of the Spirit is to be increasingly evident in his life, especially in his relationship to others (John 12:26; 1 John 3:17-18). The Holy Spirit empowers him to gain victory over sin and temptation, to live a pure life, and to do good (Romans 6; 8:9-16; Titus 2:11-14). The Holy Spirit is God’s guarantee that He will also redeem the bodies of faithful believers in the day of Christ (Ephesians 5:30).“

Re: the split, I guess because almost all the churches in North America at the time were of Mennonite/Amish descent. The moustache was/is a really big issue to this day. I remember reading a long time ago that it had something to do with the religious persecution the Germans/Swiss experienced in Europe before they immigrated.

Temporal1 they range from background to background. Some churches will have several different nationalities and each wear their headcovering differently. Likewise the men, some will wear a tie because they believe it’s reverent, some will believe this is extremely offensive and will not.

I’ve tried to attach more pictures but the files are too large. These are an example of how some wear theirs during church and others who are more conservative wear their every day ones. I will add more once I fix the pictures. And not a pest.