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ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:31 pm

Josh wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:29 pm

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 6:44 pm
That is correct, as due to the attention the state started asking them to make a bundle of changes to their progam including specific educational requirements for the mentors and staff and basically get the facility accreddited.

That’s a shame, as now boys under 18 won’t be able to get the help they need.

I don't think the state cares about that.

Unfortunately. I wish the state focused more on the under 18 kids rioting in packs in Philadelphia, like just happened.

And the Feds definately don't care - they're more concerned about the fact that the farm wasn't paying its volunteer mentors minimum wage plus overtime.

Aren’t people allowed to volunteer?

JayP wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 4:29 pm Does anyone know the develop of this story?

I cannot find ANYTHING in the press and those in the ministry of Eastern that I know won't discuss it at all.

I heard from my brother who's father-in-law is a senior Eastern Bishop involved with the settlement, that all his father-in-law said was that "there will be some large brotherhood assistance needs for a while." I don't think resolution was ever announced in the churches.

I'm glad that some changes are being made. There were some disturbing stories that came home with a family friend that was a "mentor" a few years ago, as well as a few men from church that were mentors over the past 10 or so years.

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:31 pm

Josh wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:29 pm

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 6:44 pm
That is correct, as due to the attention the state started asking them to make a bundle of changes to their progam including specific educational requirements for the mentors and staff and basically get the facility accreddited.

That’s a shame, as now boys under 18 won’t be able to get the help they need.

I don't think the state cares about that.
And the Feds definately don't care - they're more concerned about the fact that the farm wasn't paying it's volunteer mentors minimum wage plus overtime.

Wasn't it a private lawsuit and not a state or federal enforcement action?

Was there some kind of out-of-court settlement? Which might well be private?

Or did they just drop the lawsuit and walk away?

I think the lack of information and the resolution of this incident demonstrates one of the worst qualities of the Conservation Mennonite Churches. Those in charge get to make decisions secretly.

First, I don't have enough firsthand information to be sure about anything but...
Second, those in sympathy with Eastern & the Program, at some point you simply do NOT legally have the right to hold people and restrain them. It's called kidnapping.
Third, the comments along the line of 'where will they get help'...sorry. EPMC is pretty limited in 'helping' if the solution is not more discipline. I remember a child in school (not ours) who had some issues sitting still. Punishing him by keeping him in a recess only made it worse. Really? maybe letting the kid blow off some energy might be a solution, but no, punishment always comes first
Fourth, the ministry don't necessarily need to answer to ME on this issue, but my friends in EPMC sincerely don't know the resolution. Why not?

I think this is a classic case of EPMC meant well, but with just a few folks handling it mistake were made. And then, there simply isn't the visibility on these issues that creates true accountability and checks & balances.

From what I hear, there are a number of EPMC folks getting frustrated that the Bishops call EPMC a "conferring fellowship" but in reality their only option is to confer to what ever the bishops decide.

JayP wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:36 am From what I hear, there are a number of EPMC folks getting frustrated that the Bishops call EPMC a "conferring fellowship" but in reality their only option is to confer to what ever the bishops decide.

Well, Pilgrim isn’t really any different. Fellowships on the other hand tend to have members vote on it.

Soloist wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 1:47 pm

JayP wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:36 am From what I hear, there are a number of EPMC folks getting frustrated that the Bishops call EPMC a "conferring fellowship" but in reality their only option is to confer to whatever the bishops decide.

Well, Pilgrim isn’t really any different. Fellowships on the other hand tend to have members vote on it.

Pilgrim is a Conference. Aaron Shank was very much pushing that Pilgrim be a conference when it formed. Eastern is technically a conferring fellowship in that members vote for changes to the discipline. However (1) when a vote is taken on an issue, there is a meeting where there is a "sermon" stating why the change should be made, strongly influencing the vote. (2) the discipline is a "minimum standard". Each bishop is allowed to make whatever additional rules in his district he wants to make.

What does the C stand for in EPMC?

RZehr wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 5:11 pm What does the C stand for in EPMC?

EPMC = Eastern Pennsylvania Mennonite Church

Biblical Anabaptist wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 4:57 pm Pilgrim is a Conference. Aaron Shank was very much pushing that Pilgrim be a conference when it formed. Eastern is technically a conferring fellowship in that members vote for changes to the discipline. However (1) when a vote is taken on an issue, there is a meeting where there is a "sermon" stating why the change should be made, strongly influencing the vote. (2) the discipline is a "minimum standard". Each bishop is allowed to make whatever additional rules in his district he wants to make.

Do you know why Aaron Shank pushed for a Conference?

Biblical Anabaptist wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 4:57 pm

Soloist wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 1:47 pm

JayP wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:36 am From what I hear, there are a number of EPMC folks getting frustrated that the Bishops call EPMC a "conferring fellowship" but in reality their only option is to confer to whatever the bishops decide.

Well, Pilgrim isn’t really any different. Fellowships on the other hand tend to have members vote on it.

Pilgrim is a Conference. Aaron Shank was very much pushing that Pilgrim be a conference when it formed. Eastern is technically a conferring fellowship in that members vote for changes to the discipline. However (1) when a vote is taken on an issue, there is a meeting where there is a "sermon" stating why the change should be made, strongly influencing the vote. (2) the discipline is a "minimum standard". Each bishop is allowed to make whatever additional rules in his district he wants to make.

Is this done without the approval/consent of the rest of the Ministry or Congregations?