What the Mennonites got wrong

[appleman2006]

Most Anabaptist history books we have start off defending why Munster was not an Anabaptist - remember from my background it seems everybody is just rewriting history to suit their own agenda.

So when I have the feeling that Mennonites are proud of their heritage and history including the time of the Russian Mennonites, imagine my horror and dismay when just a year ago I read, "Why I take not the Sword," by Isaac Theissen...

Now why are Mennonites quick to say they are Russian Mennonite descendants and completely leave out the details they were rich, beat their slaves, avoided being drafted to war but still took up arms and killed people, but yet are very quick to tell about how Catholics and Protestants killed our forefathers and so strongly encourage reading books like the Martyrs Mirror that is just rehearsing offenses from others?

Wade, in general I have no problem with the main point I think you are trying to make. However, if I may, let me correct a few points you made in the above abbreviation of the last post you made.

First I would be interested in even seeing one history book that stated that Munster was not an Anabaptist. Seeing that Munster is a place... But if you are referring to the people living there I get your point. They were not by the way. They were not accepted as Anabaptist by the majority of other Anabaptists of their time. saying I am a donkey does not make me one regardless what some may think.

As to the part about Russian Mennonite background people leaving out the details of their background that you mention. Perhaps it is because many of them did not participate in those types of activities. I am not sure of the groups you came in contact with but many many Russian Mennonites immigrated here long before some of the things you mentioned took place at least in great numbers. And not nearly all of them were rich.

But I still agree that we are not immune from glossing over negative aspects of our background.

[ken_sylvania]

As to the part about Russian Mennonite background people leaving out the details of their background that you mention. Perhaps it is because many of them did not participate in those types of activities. I am not sure of the groups you came in contact with but many many Russian Mennonites immigrated here long before some of the things you mentioned took place at least in great numbers. And not nearly all of them were rich.
But I still agree that we are not immune from glossing over negative aspects of our background.

Interestingly, it appears to have been the landless class of Russian Mennonites (who were not rich) that were most interested in emigrating to Canada in the earlier years. The richer members of the colonies were understandably more reluctant to leave the country, as they had much more at stake.

[Wade]

You seem to be around different Mennonites than I have been. The ones I have been around mostly want to talk about what we should be doing or are doing today.

A few folks like history and want to talk about it, but are pretty balanced that every historical figure had made mistakes. They are also pretty open and honest about major problems that developed in Anabaptism when it transitioned from a persecuted faith to an ethnic group accustomed to wealth and comfort.

Thank you for sharing this. The more recent Mennonites we have come to know a bit - do not seem like the way I described.

I am really happy to hear that it is less common.

Thank you for your corrections Appleman.
I didn't intend to make any argument that those in Munster were Anabaptist but rather show an idea of the confusion about history that I have faced with new pieces continual being added in, defended, left out...(This can happen with church standards too...) Just makes some one new to all this information that is not very smart, cross eyed and scratching his head...
History has become very unappealing at times with so many different "truths".

And I did say what I said for myself too in forgiving and moving on without revisiting others offenses as I have done this when I shouldn't have...

[ken_sylvania]

Wade, I do want to thank you for bringing in a very valid point. It reminds me of the discussion that's been going on in the Credible News thread. No matter how hard we try, it's nearly impossible not to have some bias in our reporting of history, and it is good to have it pointed out at times.

[Aaron]

Obviously no one group has it all right. My reason for this thread is not to focus on why Mennonites are doing better, or why other groups are doing worse, but to identify legitimate points of concern within the Mennonite church.

So my question is just that: Where have the Mennonites missed the mark as a church? What would you like to see be done about specific concerns?

For the 'exact' same reason(s) Voice of the Martyrs hides the identity of the people, places, and methods used to help Christians and Jews and others in difficult countries,
so also the identity of those what group "has it all right", is never disclosed .....

One recent (20 years ago) missionary from the USA to China in fact was offered an opportunity to visit one of the hidden assemblies,

and declined in order to protect them - because they were aware that no matter where they went, they would probably be followed, and would likely put anyone who they visited in greater danger than they were already in. (and this was and is still so) ....

Other groups, likewise hidden, that started out to be M, later changed to A, because there were , in their own words, too many instructions/ practices/ or other things not found in the Bible, ("too many traditions or instructions of men) that were not in line with the Bible, in the M ......

[Bill Rushby]

can someone set Gene's lyrics to music? music to the ear.

It's about time Gene spoke up! His comments have a certain poetic ring to them. I don't necessarily understand him, but he certainly sounds good.

[ohio jones]

Bill, check the date on Gene's poetry. They are now but faint echoes.

Actually this has become quite an echo chamber lately -- "echoes from the burning bush" if it were to be expressed in familyar musical terms.

[appleman2006]

Bill, check the date on Gene's poetry. They are now but faint echoes.

Actually this has become quite an echo chamber lately -- "echoes from the burning bush" if it were to be expressed in familyar musical terms.

You had to pick that rendition?

[ohio jones]

You had to pick that rendition?

I know, the Cathedrals would have been more polished. But this is the Bush Family singing about the burning bush, which I thought was appropriate given the recent posts by Amram's family.

[Joy]

For the 'exact' same reason(s) Voice of the Martyrs hides the identity of the people, places, and methods used to help Christians and Jews and others in difficult countries,
so also the identity of those what group "has it all right", is never disclosed .....

Or there could be other reasons, considering the financial and sex scandals of VOM.