Making room for the Kingdom of God

[ken_sylvania]

That's news to me. When did he move away?

I'm fairly certain he's in the Great White North, as quite a few of our posters here on MennoNet are. (One of my complaints with a certain sector of MennoNet is that it retains a strictly American perspective on things; a proper Mennonite perspective should at least include America and Canada, and a realistic one would include quite a few other places, such as Mexico, Brazil, and Haiti.)

My own church is roughly 20% Canadian and the current issues in Canada (and lack of travel opportunities) represents serious challenges to continuing the practice of Christian life and also to maintaining unity. The church of God should not be divided by national borders, and sound doctrine does not change based on political boundaries.

I thought that Canada was a part of America, even if it's not part of the United States of America.

[Josh]

That's news to me. When did he move away?

I'm fairly certain he's in the Great White North, as quite a few of our posters here on MennoNet are. (One of my complaints with a certain sector of MennoNet is that it retains a strictly American perspective on things; a proper Mennonite perspective should at least include America and Canada, and a realistic one would include quite a few other places, such as Mexico, Brazil, and Haiti.)

My own church is roughly 20% Canadian and the current issues in Canada (and lack of travel opportunities) represents serious challenges to continuing the practice of Christian life and also to maintaining unity. The church of God should not be divided by national borders, and sound doctrine does not change based on political boundaries.

I thought that Canada was a part of America, even if it's not part of the United States of America.

You could say the continent of North America, but generally speaking "American" means "of the United States of America". Canadians will be quite happy to tell you they aren't American!

[Bootstrap]

From my frame of reference in the area I live in I have literally heard a number of people say that the only thing going to save humanity from COVID is a/the vaccine. There is so much fear around getting sick and dying people are looking for a saviour in man's science - that is where people's hope is lying who do not have hope in Christ and the kingdom of God.

Early on some were qouting ridiculous doctors saying crazy things like for example "Covid spares no one"... Actually over 99% of people survive from it... That is no where near sharing the hope we can have in Christ and I've seen that same attitude continue on in Covid vaccine supporters.

Ok, yes this is a generalization and I agree not everyone is this way but for the most part the worldly people I know have placed their faith in a vaccine and it appeases them enough that they feel no need of Christ.

My frame of reference is different. I wear a seat belt. I exercise and eat good food. I try to get a good night's sleep. I would not ride in a car with someone who has drunk too much. I see all of that as wisdom, not as living in fear.

So far, 673,929 people have died in the United States due to Covid-19. The population of the United States is 333,363,103, so a little more than 1 out of every 500 Americans have died from this disease so far. This disease is real. As Christians, we do not fear death, we need to put our trust in God and have confidence in his will for us, living in joy and peace. But we don't need to live in denial to do that. I agree that it's possible to panic and go overboard, but I think it's also wise to take the risk of Covid seriously. Figuring out exactly what that means is not always easy.

I am especially cautious about risks I take on behalf of others. I don't want anyone else to get seriously sick because of my actions. To me, "love thy neighbor" implies being careful not to do things that might endanger them. For people who cannot justify taking the vaccine, I think that implies a willingness to do other things to protect the health of others.

I also study the Bible regularly, have regular fellowship, and try to live my life in service to God. I don't see a conflict. To me, the Kingdom of God does not require denial of real risks.

When people are looking for hope I don't think any supporter of the vaccine is sending a clear message the only hope is in Christ and a better way of being part of the kingdom of God. But, again since the people I relate to on a personal level seem to live in fear that is why I feel that way.

Do you feel the same way about other causes of death?

Can I support seatbelts and drunk driving laws and good diet and lifestyle choices and still put my faith in Christ?

Let's really be careful and intentional in what kingdom we are promoting and supporting.

Absolutely.

[Josh]

My frame of reference is different. I wear a seat belt. I exercise and eat good food. I try to get a good night's sleep. I would not ride in a car with someone who has drunk too much. I see all of that as wisdom, not as living in fear.

None of those things are the same as taking an experimental vaccine which may or may not be effective.

So far, 673,929 people have died in the United States due to Covid-19. The population of the United States is 333,363,103, so a little more than 1 out of every 500 Americans have died from this disease so far. This disease is real. As Christians, we do not fear death, we need to put our trust in God and have confidence in his will for us, living in joy and peace. But we don't need to live in denial to do that. I agree that it's possible to panic and go overboard, but I think it's also wise to take the risk of Covid seriously. Figuring out exactly what that means is not always easy.

And people die of the flu every year (except last year, when flu deaths mysteriously disappeared).

I am especially cautious about risks I take on behalf of others. I don't want anyone else to get seriously sick because of my actions. To me, "love thy neighbor" implies being careful not to do things that might endanger them. For people who cannot justify taking the vaccine, I think that implies a willingness to do other things to protect the health of others.

Yet there are risks as well with locking down entire countries and preventing people from having any normal social contact. These are very serious, real risks. The number of suicides and drug overdoses went way, way up last year and remains stubbornly high. The murder rate is astonishingly high right now. Shootings are way, way up.

If we want to "protect the health of others", that includes not cutting off people from social contact, which is exactly what happened last year. That includes not depriving people of ever seeing other human faces. In my opinion and my best judgment, I think that it hurts others and does not protect their health to socially isolate, socially distance, and hide my face behind a mask.

Do you feel the same way about other causes of death?

Can I support seatbelts and drunk driving laws and good diet and lifestyle choices and still put my faith in Christ?

As Anabaptists, we don't need to support or oppose laws. But I am 100% against drinking alcohol - and not because the government says so. (Nowadays the government is busy promoting alcohol consumption, and alcohol related deaths and illnesses have also increased dramatically.)

(And as far as seatbelt laws go, one state in America has no seatbelt law. The rest do. There is no significant difference in traffic accident safety between New Hampshire and the rest of the country.)

[ken_sylvania]

I'm fairly certain he's in the Great White North, as quite a few of our posters here on MennoNet are. (One of my complaints with a certain sector of MennoNet is that it retains a strictly American perspective on things; a proper Mennonite perspective should at least include America and Canada, and a realistic one would include quite a few other places, such as Mexico, Brazil, and Haiti.)

My own church is roughly 20% Canadian and the current issues in Canada (and lack of travel opportunities) represents serious challenges to continuing the practice of Christian life and also to maintaining unity. The church of God should not be divided by national borders, and sound doctrine does not change based on political boundaries.

I thought that Canada was a part of America, even if it's not part of the United States of America.

You could say the continent of North America, but generally speaking "American" means "of the United States of America". Canadians will be quite happy to tell you they aren't American!

Can't blame 'em for not wanting people to think they came from the States. Just talked to someone from there this afternoon - they feel very much either ignored or despised by the current governance in the USA.

[PetrChelcicky]

I am still uncertain about the term "Kingdom of God". In German we call it "Reich Gottes" (or "Reich Christi") which i have always understood as the "realm of God/Christ" and interpreted rather as an anarchy of love, not a monarchy of God.
When I read the article "Kingdom of God" in GAMEO, they quote a lot of Protestant theologians, but no Mennonite before Yoder. The refer to the Mennonite Bibliography, but don't name any titles. So. was "Kingdom of God" really an important part of Mennonite thought before the 1960s?

As for "building" the kingdom of God, my idea is that we must develop tricks and techniques to overcome our own urge to damage other people. This is an interesting field for research. My own ideas float around "sadness", "letting loose" and "abstainment" - but that is in a way the opposite of "getting something", even if the something is "the Kingdom of God".

[Bill Rushby]

I have no TV and do not spend lots of time reviewing what the political big wheels say, be they mainline or "alternative". I do read *The Budget* more than I should; it is the only newspaper we get. I also read that scandalous *Christianity Today* which caused Trump supporters so much grief! I am appalled at the mortality rate among conservative Anabaptists! A very longtime friend who is an Elder in the tradiltionalist branch of Old German Baptists called me a couple of weeks ago, and expressed his profound regret that there are seven cases of Covid in his church district. He didn't say this but I infer that these are all unvaccinated persons.

It is very disturbing to him, and to me, that Old German Baptists appear to suffer more from Covid than the general public! A close OGB friend in Indiana wrote to me lately, telling me that her older daughter and son-in-law have suffered badly from their Covid infections. The son-in-law has been in the hospital for this reason.

What do you make of all this?

[Bill Rushby]

Josh wrote: ...people die of the flu every year (except last year, when flu deaths mysteriously disappeared).

Actually, there is no mystery about why flu was less prevalent last year. The same "social distancing" mandates designed to slow Covid infections last year also caused a sharp decline in flu cases!

[Josh]

Josh wrote: ...people die of the flu every year (except last year, when flu deaths mysteriously disappeared).

Actually, there is no mystery about why flu was less prevalent last year. The same "social distancing" mandates designed to slow Covid infections last year also caused a sharp decline in flu cases!

Yet mysteriously covid got worse!

[temporal1]

Josh wrote: ...people die of the flu every year (except last year, when flu deaths mysteriously disappeared).

Actually, there is no mystery about why flu was less prevalent last year.
The same "social distancing" mandates designed to slow Covid infections last year also caused a sharp decline in flu cases!

Hello, Bill Rushby!
Good to read from you. Hope all is well with you+yours.

i prefer the words, “physical distancing,” finding them more accurate (and less dismal).

i’m prayerful young people, teens, children, will pick up on the obvious (but generally ignored) fact you describe.
that PERSONAL ACTIONS+CHOICES make a difference, and can PREVENT untold problems. it’s basic, children can learn.

1) wash hands
2) observe physical boundaries
3) isolate when you’re sick
4) masks may help control the spread of germs to others; covering one’s face when coughing or sneezing is established protocol

there is nothing new or costly about any of these things!

like you, i think we can all rest assured, there has been less communicable illness via these actions.
i’m astonished wondering how these basics might lower instances of STDs, HIV AIDS, Hepatitis, and more?
unwanted pregnancies? it’s about personal choices: for prevention.

i wonder why these basics are ignored?
children are smarter than recognized, i hope they quietly put 2+2 together and realize, “wow! i can make good personal choices that will PREVENT heartaches.” “i’m not a slave to carnal instincts.” imagine that.

children are watching. and learning.
i pray the Holy Spirit to guide them to higher paths, when adults around them fail.
i believe in the power+goodness of the Holy Spirit.