Modesty & Simplicity

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Josh
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Re: Modesty & Simplicity

Post by Josh »

I think one answer is to engage in hospitality.

I have a good house, so it is open to anyone who needs to stay there. My car is available if someone needs to drive it. I am included in the list of people who need to stay / drive.

Since I started doing that, now some of my friends have the same attitude and share their stuff like their home.
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Adam
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Re: Modesty & Simplicity

Post by Adam »

Ernie wrote: I think there will be a trade off.
Learning the skills takes time and adjusting to the culture takes time and it could feel like a deterrent to getting the Bible translated in a timely manner. However as it is, unless you make your comforts available to the natives, I think you will need to spend significant time trying to convince or explain why you can or should live differently then them.
This is just my perspective as a spectator. I have no particular knowledge or experience in your world.
Interestingly enough, the people whom we live amongst are delighted that we have built our house in their village. They do not expect us to live in a bush house. And because they know that we are here to serve the Enga people and because we are learning their language, they are happy to have us in their community. If we were just here to serve ourselves, however, we would not receive a warm reception.

Because of their long history of tribal fighting, the government has not provided many services to the community where we live. They seem to be changing their ways now, and having a western style house in their community supports that idea. In fact, the week we moved in, a government agency came to help them start growing onions by committing to build a model farm. One of the men from the agency said that when he saw our house, he felt like it would be a good community to help.
Adam wrote: Many Christians in America and Canada are living in mansions and driving Lamborghinis already, even those who are living simply and modestly, they just don't realize it.

Ernie wrote: As compared to where you are presently?
Yes, but I know RZehr wants to keep this focused on the North American context, so I will say no more about third world vs. first world differences other than to remind people that when you look at another's house and think that it is rich and extravagant, there are billions of people in the world looking at your modest and simple house and thinking the same thing.
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Josh
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Re: Modesty & Simplicity

Post by Josh »

I think the real issue is the stuff James talks about - pride, jealousy, lust, anger. And those things happen in a local context and a cultural context.

Few of us are global citizens, although some of us are, like myself or Adam. We have to consider a lot of people our neighbour. And we have a lot more responsibility to avoid pride and lust and covetousness.
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RZehr
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Re: Modesty & Simplicity

Post by RZehr »

Ah, go ahead Adam. I do want to focus on N America, but maybe it is important to talk about perspective here. If someone has something on that go ahead....

Adam, maybe I'll start by challenging you a little on your statement that the billions of people look at our modest homes and consider them to be extravagant. I'm sure there are some that would feel that way if they considered the house in isolation, or in comparison with their own. But at the same time I believe many of them would be able to see and understand that in the N American context, the home would be average.
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Neto
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Re: Modesty & Simplicity

Post by Neto »

Adam wrote: ... I know RZehr wants to keep this focused on the North American context, so I will say no more about third world vs. first world differences other than to remind people that when you look at another's house and think that it is rich and extravagant, there are billions of people in the world looking at your modest and simple house and thinking the same thing.
And even your garden shed.
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Sudsy
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Re: Modesty & Simplicity

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RZehr wrote: Last week, we had a customer here from Bulgaria, maybe the wealthiest person I've ever met. His family owns ports, and farms 1,500,000 acres of prime corn/wheat/peas farmland. When this man orders the most expensive meal at lunch time ($30) I don't think he is being extravagant, because I (as the poor man looking on) know for him this is not fancy, it is like myself ordering a $0.30 item.
If I could well afford to spend $30 for lunch, as a Christian, I would feel I had sinned. Unless most people had to spend $30 in that setting for a soup and sandwich.
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Sudsy
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Re: Modesty & Simplicity

Post by Sudsy »

Josh wrote:The church of God in Christ, Mennonite has a position against acquiring and displaying things that are "highly esteemed" by the world, other than things esteemed for godliness.

So, for example, 4x4 trucks were highly esteemed and expensive a few decades ago and members were not permitted to have one. Nowadays they are common and are permitted.

Likewise when Dockers khakis first came out they were "highly esteemed" and fashionable. Nowadays nobody thinks they are, so even church leaders will wear Dockers they got at a thrift store.

Same goes for size of houses.
Josh, so how does this 'not permitting member' thing work ? Is there some kind of list where things go on and are later removed ? If so, who decides when something was not permitted but now is ? Just curious.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Modesty & Simplicity

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Josh wrote:The church of God in Christ, Mennonite has a position against acquiring and displaying things that are "highly esteemed" by the world, other than things esteemed for godliness.

So, for example, 4x4 trucks were highly esteemed and expensive a few decades ago and members were not permitted to have one. Nowadays they are common and are permitted.

Likewise when Dockers khakis first came out they were "highly esteemed" and fashionable. Nowadays nobody thinks they are, so even church leaders will wear Dockers they got at a thrift store.

Same goes for size of houses.
Sometimes "a good deal" or value for money seems to be one of the guiding factors. If everyone needs a truck, (Sooner or later, in work use they don't last forever) and the best deals are on the 4X4s, value will tend to win out, and space will be made. I have found that Mennonites are basically frugal people, and that frugality sometimes wins out over other considerations.

J.M.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Modesty & Simplicity

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Sudsy wrote:
Josh wrote:The church of God in Christ, Mennonite has a position against acquiring and displaying things that are "highly esteemed" by the world, other than things esteemed for godliness.

So, for example, 4x4 trucks were highly esteemed and expensive a few decades ago and members were not permitted to have one. Nowadays they are common and are permitted.

Likewise when Dockers khakis first came out they were "highly esteemed" and fashionable. Nowadays nobody thinks they are, so even church leaders will wear Dockers they got at a thrift store.

Same goes for size of houses.
Josh, so how does this 'not permitting member' thing work ? Is there some kind of list where things go on and are later removed ? If so, who decides when something was not permitted but now is ? Just curious.
Just like in my Moderate conservative conference, TVs are not permitted. Members promise to uphold the standards of the conference. There are no TV police, but we are also expected to be honest.

J.M.
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Josh
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Re: Modesty & Simplicity

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Sudsy wrote:Josh, so how does this 'not permitting member' thing work ? Is there some kind of list where things go on and are later removed ? If so, who decides when something was not permitted but now is ? Just curious.
Before making big decisions (like a new job, moving, buying something expensive, etc.) it is expected you would at the very least talk to the ministers about it, and most likely talk to other people about it too. If you do not, you run the risk you will be told to sell/dispose of what you just bought immediately.

There is a general consensus of what is OK and what is not, it is not explictly written down, but is discussed regularly at e.g. Wednesday night Bible study.
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