What makes love hard.

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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TeleBodyofChrist
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Re: What makes love hard.

Post by TeleBodyofChrist »

I think sometimes people think if you do not allow someone to continue to hurt you, you are not showing forgiveness or love. That love is only when you wait for more abuse and look the other way repeatedly.

Does loving your enemy mean acceptance and tolerance of their bad behavior? What is the best way to love in this instance?
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Re: What makes love hard.

Post by silentreader »

Sudsy wrote:
silentreader wrote: Pride can also produce an unwillingness to let others in the church 'judge' us in our practices.
True and pride could be what is really behind those judging our practises.
That can also happen, depending on which usage of judging is intended.
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Re: What makes love hard.

Post by Sudsy »

TeleBodyofChrist wrote:I think sometimes people think if you do not allow someone to continue to hurt you, you are not showing forgiveness or love. That love is only when you wait for more abuse and look the other way repeatedly.

Does loving your enemy mean acceptance and tolerance of their bad behavior? What is the best way to love in this instance?
Well, I'm not any pro counsellor but I'll give your questions a go -

I guess my first consideration would be what kind of hurt are they causing. If it is physical harm, I don't think scripture supports the idea of continuing to turn one cheek after another and become a punching bag. But there is a radical Kingdom solution to this kind of thing. Scripture does say we are to forgive others continuously (the 70 x 7 text). But I think both Jesus and Paul later in Romans 12 tell us that if we respond to evil with love and leave vengeance to God, we actually make it very difficult for that person to continue to hurt us. It can be quite shameful for a person to keep hurting you when you turn around and treat them back with kindness. You sort of 'take the wind out of their sails' so to speak by returning good for evil. I think there are lots of opportunities on these forums to put this to the test and it takes humility and faith in the Kingdom way.

But it could also be a case where one has a 'thin skin' temperament and is easily offended. I know someone like this and at times am totally amazed at how they can put statements together to conclude something that had no real base whatsoever. And this is where it is good to get some feedback from another believer to recognize this trait and then take it to the Lord in prayer whenever a hurt is felt. We are to confess our faults to one another so we can pray for one another to overcome our struggles with the fleshly nature. And God's grace is sufficient for any hurt but as we noted in the pride thread, if we are not humble enough to reach out for God's help, we will be left on our own strength.
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TeleBodyofChrist
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Re: What makes love hard.

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Sudsy wrote:
TeleBodyofChrist wrote:I think sometimes people think if you do not allow someone to continue to hurt you, you are not showing forgiveness or love. That love is only when you wait for more abuse and look the other way repeatedly.

Does loving your enemy mean acceptance and tolerance of their bad behavior? What is the best way to love in this instance?
Well, I'm not any pro counsellor but I'll give your questions a go -

I guess my first consideration would be what kind of hurt are they causing. If it is physical harm, I don't think scripture supports the idea of continuing to turn one cheek after another and become a punching bag. But there is a radical Kingdom solution to this kind of thing. Scripture does say we are to forgive others continuously (the 70 x 7 text). But I think both Jesus and Paul later in Romans 12 tell us that if we respond to evil with love and leave vengeance to God, we actually make it very difficult for that person to continue to hurt us. It can be quite shameful for a person to keep hurting you when you turn around and treat them back with kindness. You sort of 'take the wind out of their sails' so to speak by returning good for evil. I think there are lots of opportunities on these forums to put this to the test and it takes humility and faith in the Kingdom way.

But it could also be a case where one has a 'thin skin' temperament and is easily offended. I know someone like this and at times am totally amazed at how they can put statements together to conclude something that had no real base whatsoever. And this is where it is good to get some feedback from another believer to recognize this trait and then take it to the Lord in prayer whenever a hurt is felt. We are to confess our faults to one another so we can pray for one another to overcome our struggles with the fleshly nature. And God's grace is sufficient for any hurt but as we noted in the pride thread, if we are not humble enough to reach out for God's help, we will be left on our own strength.
Thanks! I know there is not always an easy answer to this. I guess what I mean is when you have to keep your distance. I know some would think you are not forgiving if you are keeping your distance from someone who is a toxic personality. They would say you are not loving them but some personalities (narcissistic) can make it hard to have contact and peace.
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Re: What makes love hard.

Post by Sudsy »

TeleBodyofChrist wrote: Thanks! I know there is not always an easy answer to this. I guess what I mean is when you have to keep your distance. I know some would think you are not forgiving if you are keeping your distance from someone who is a toxic personality. They would say you are not loving them but some personalities (narcissistic) can make it hard to have contact and peace.
I guess this is where I think I need the Holy Spirit's direction on how to handle a situation like that over what some other believer thinks about love and forgiving. It is fine to hear their input and request supporting scriptures but God alone knows what is the root cause of this toxic personality. They just might need someone to take their abuse long enough to get to know them better and treat them as a friend.

Although keeping distance is a way of being at peace, there could be great reward spiritually by putting the radical Kingdom way to the test. Blessings for them, yourself and others. No one ran into more toxic personalities than Jesus. The Kingdom way is hard on the flesh but very rewarding to the Spirit.
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Re: What makes love hard.

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'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
How can one love others is he does not love himself first? This doesn't mean vanity or fleshliness towards one's own self, obviously.

If we cannot recognize and abide in the love that God has ascribed us all, we surely cannot love others.

The idea of love has always tickled my mind a bit.
The source of our love for others is not the love of our self, but it is from the love of God. We love because He first loved us. If God loves us, who are to not love ourselves?** With the same kind of love as the love of self (stemming directly from the love of God), we are to love others.

**loving yourself doesn't mean blatantly accepting your every condition and desire as worth loving. That's anti-Christ.
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Re: What makes love hard.

Post by Sudsy »

KingdomBuilder wrote:
'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
How can one love others is he does not love himself first? This doesn't mean vanity or fleshliness towards one's own self, obviously.

If we cannot recognize and abide in the love that God has ascribed us all, we surely cannot love others.

The idea of love has always tickled my mind a bit.
The source of our love for others is not the love of our self, but it is from the love of God. We love because He first loved us. If God loves us, who are to not love ourselves?** With the same kind of love as the love of self (stemming directly from the love of God), we are to love others.

**loving yourself doesn't mean blatantly accepting your every condition and desire as worth loving. That's anti-Christ.
Good thoughts. Let's continue exploring what makes love hard.

Self-absorption or being selfish the bible speaks against. And some Christians see themselves still as dirty rotten sinners and think this is how they should view themselves to be humble. But God calls us His children and even saints. Actually it is sort of arrogant (pride) to look at ourselves less than God does. So, I need to accept myself in my personality and imperfections, knowing that although I am not where I need to be, through the Spirit, I am making progress. I need this reminder.

We are told first and foremost to love God with everything we have in us. As we do this I believe we will love our neighbour as ourselves. “Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love” (1 John 4:8). If we find loving others hard, then we need to question ourselves with "do I know God ?". Knowing God and submitting to the working of His power within me will produce a faithful, forgiving, humble, gracious, sacrificial love for others. A Jesus kind of love.

I think it can be dangerous to view the world as more self-focused than ever before and therefore a Christian needs to be the opposite of that and despise themselves. To me, this is similar to avoiding individualism to the extent where a community relationship is pursued at the neglect of a personal relationship with God. We must be careful in how we become unlike the world that it doesn't contradict Jesus example.
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