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Valerie
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Re: website.

Post by Valerie »

Erika wrote:I have decided to leave this website as it is one of the nastiest forums I have encountered.
The website seems to has the function of an inquisitor. Inquisitors simply are not Christian and who are more concerned about conforming to the mob rule rather than practicing Christian love. I think the martyrs would be ashamed of this website and it is no wonder American Anabaptists have had so many divisions, splits, railings, and hate. I bet this post gets removed. I will check later.
The early Anabaptists, the early Christians, gave their lives for Christ and could endure much more suffering than the disagreements you have encountered. It seems to me your own attitude is very militant and accusatory, yet you try to flip this around on everyone who simply disagrees with you.
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Josh
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Re: website.

Post by Josh »

Erika wrote:I have decided to leave this website as it is one of the nastiest forums I have encountered.
The website seems to has the function of an inquisitor. Inquisitors simply are not Christian and who are more concerned about conforming to the mob rule rather than practicing Christian love. I think the martyrs would be ashamed of this website and it is no wonder American Anabaptists have had so many divisions, splits, railings, and hate. I bet this post gets removed. I will check later.
For what it's worth, a number of the people in the threads you have been posting in aren't even Anabaptists.

This is a forum where a very wide range of viewpoints are allowed, including yours. You will notice that MaxPC kept calling over and over for your point of view to be silence on the thread about John Coblentz and Gender Identity, but nobody in charge made that happen. You are welcome to post here and share your view.

Of course, many people here don't share your view, and your viewpoints may be challenged. The same thing happens to me. Some people posting here may be struggling with bitter feelings or hatred in their hearts, but in my experience, most people are quite sincere, even if they disagree with me.

I hope you'll choose to stay and engage.
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Josh
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Re: website.

Post by Josh »

Valerie wrote:
Erika wrote:I have decided to leave this website as it is one of the nastiest forums I have encountered.
The website seems to has the function of an inquisitor. Inquisitors simply are not Christian and who are more concerned about conforming to the mob rule rather than practicing Christian love. I think the martyrs would be ashamed of this website and it is no wonder American Anabaptists have had so many divisions, splits, railings, and hate. I bet this post gets removed. I will check later.
The early Anabaptists, the early Christians, gave their lives for Christ and could endure much more suffering than the disagreements you have encountered. It seems to me your own attitude is very militant and accusatory, yet you try to flip this around on everyone who simply disagrees with you.
Valerie,

I would think it would show honesty on your part to share that you are not Anabaptist.

Sometimes I feel like you are often busy pushing your own opinions in a militant and accusatory fashion. (I probably do the same thing too, although I shouldn't.) Of course, that doesn't excuse it or make it okay if Erika is doing that, but it's not like Erika is the only one.
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Valerie
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Re: website.

Post by Valerie »

Josh wrote:
Erika wrote:I have decided to leave this website as it is one of the nastiest forums I have encountered.
The website seems to has the function of an inquisitor. Inquisitors simply are not Christian and who are more concerned about conforming to the mob rule rather than practicing Christian love. I think the martyrs would be ashamed of this website and it is no wonder American Anabaptists have had so many divisions, splits, railings, and hate. I bet this post gets removed. I will check later.
For what it's worth, a number of the people in the threads you have been posting in aren't even Anabaptists.

This is a forum where a very wide range of viewpoints are allowed, including yours. You will notice that MaxPC kept calling over and over for your point of view to be silence on the thread about John Coblentz and Gender Identity, but nobody in charge made that happen. You are welcome to post here and share your view.

Of course, many people here don't share your view, and your viewpoints may be challenged. The same thing happens to me. Some people posting here may be struggling with bitter feelings or hatred in their hearts, but in my experience, most people are quite sincere, even if they disagree with me.

I hope you'll choose to stay and engage.
That is true, I am not Anabaptist, even if I agree with many of their teachings, I hope you stay too Erika. I have shared my understandings of certain doctrines too and have been met with a lot of opposition- sometimes I am met with grace and sometimes not so much but I have to ask myself if I am always responding in grace- in topics where there are various opinions. As far as all the splits within Anabaptism, I wouldn't blame a forum such as this as an example, there were splits from the very beginning if you read the history of Anabaptists- I am not sure you are understanding why that is-

Are you the same Erika that came to Mennodiscuss several years ago?
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Valerie
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Re: website.

Post by Valerie »

Josh wrote:
Valerie wrote:
Erika wrote:I have decided to leave this website as it is one of the nastiest forums I have encountered.
The website seems to has the function of an inquisitor. Inquisitors simply are not Christian and who are more concerned about conforming to the mob rule rather than practicing Christian love. I think the martyrs would be ashamed of this website and it is no wonder American Anabaptists have had so many divisions, splits, railings, and hate. I bet this post gets removed. I will check later.
The early Anabaptists, the early Christians, gave their lives for Christ and could endure much more suffering than the disagreements you have encountered. It seems to me your own attitude is very militant and accusatory, yet you try to flip this around on everyone who simply disagrees with you.
Valerie,

I would think it would show honesty on your part to share that you are not Anabaptist.

Sometimes I feel like you are often busy pushing your own opinions in a militant and accusatory fashion. (I probably do the same thing too, although I shouldn't.) Of course, that doesn't excuse it or make it okay if Erika is doing that, but it's not like Erika is the only one.
My responses to Erika's posts were not accusatory, I said nothing to her personally, and was asking questions and sharing concerns. You are Anabaptists, and she had a real problem with your response, and other Anabaptists responses too- and I also was wondering if this is the same Erika who was on Mennodiscuss years ago-if so, we had many personal messages and had a good relationship, behind the scenes-
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Josh
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Re: website.

Post by Josh »

Valerie wrote:My responses to Erika's posts were not accusatory, I said nothing to her personally, and was asking questions and sharing concerns. You are Anabaptists, and she had a real problem with your response, and other Anabaptists responses too- and I also was wondering if this is the same Erika who was on Mennodiscuss years ago-if so, we had many personal messages and had a good relationship, behind the scenes-
I'm just saying that if we're going to call out people for being inflammatory and militant, well, a lot of us here are going to have trouble picking up the first stone. Amongst other things, MaxPC formally disfellowshipped me, quoted 1 Corinthians 6, and informed me I have lost my salvation. You have reacted rather strongly to me for me simply doubting the efficacy of various alternative medicines. I myself have generated quite a bit of rancor around here. Whatever MennoNet is, it is one thing in particular: a place where very strong opinions and expressing them in a very strong manner is allowed and is part of how we do things.
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Valerie
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Re: website.

Post by Valerie »

Josh wrote:
Valerie wrote:My responses to Erika's posts were not accusatory, I said nothing to her personally, and was asking questions and sharing concerns. You are Anabaptists, and she had a real problem with your response, and other Anabaptists responses too- and I also was wondering if this is the same Erika who was on Mennodiscuss years ago-if so, we had many personal messages and had a good relationship, behind the scenes-
I'm just saying that if we're going to call out people for being inflammatory and militant, well, a lot of us here are going to have trouble picking up the first stone. Amongst other things, MaxPC formally disfellowshipped me, quoted 1 Corinthians 6, and informed me I have lost my salvation. You have reacted rather strongly to me for me simply doubting the efficacy of various alternative medicines. I myself have generated quite a bit of rancor around here. Whatever MennoNet is, it is one thing in particular: a place where very strong opinions and expressing them in a very strong manner is allowed and is part of how we do things.
True enough, but as I shared with you Josh it is the attitude in the comments when you disagree, somewhat condescending (thinking of the alternative medicine thread) and coming across as you are an expert at these things when there is validity to some things that you may be totally unaware of- you call it 'witch doctor' and other comments like this without fully being informed about some alternative medicines. We need to be able to have dialogue without those kinds of accusations which tears down the dialogue and maybe, we can all learn something! None of these disagreements is anything like true persecution which is something we need to get ready for, maybe MN is good practice for that ;) We know by the history of the Early Anabaptists, they were pretty strong in opposing the established church in their area, and anything but the quiet in the land-
Last edited by Valerie on Sun May 28, 2017 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Josh
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Re: website.

Post by Josh »

Valerie wrote:True enough, but as I shared with you Josh it is the attitude in the comments when you disagree, somewhat condescending (thinking of the alternative medicine thread) and coming across as you are an expert at these things when there is validity to some things that you may be totally unaware of- you call it 'witch doctor' and other comments like this without fulling being informed about some alternative medicines.
And you are "fully informed" about alternative medicines? My context for calling it a "witch doctor" is based upon Nolan Byler's book and Paul Weaver's book, and I'm not the only person with this opinion. I am not ashamed of calling out superstition and certainly not ashamed of calling out dark, occult practices that lurk within our plain, Anabaptist communities. And I am in high alert when I get a strong, sharp reaction against me doing so.

Perhaps Erika feels similarly attacked when Erika is trying to talk about IS issues etc. - I bet you are not "fully informed" on LGBT issues and IS issues, and how on earth could any of us expect you to be? That doesn't mean your opinion is invalid, does it?
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Valerie
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Re: website.

Post by Valerie »

Josh wrote:
Valerie wrote:True enough, but as I shared with you Josh it is the attitude in the comments when you disagree, somewhat condescending (thinking of the alternative medicine thread) and coming across as you are an expert at these things when there is validity to some things that you may be totally unaware of- you call it 'witch doctor' and other comments like this without fulling being informed about some alternative medicines.
And you are "fully informed" about alternative medicines? My context for calling it a "witch doctor" is based upon Nolan Byler's book and Paul Weaver's book, and I'm not the only person with this opinion. I am not ashamed of calling out superstition and certainly not ashamed of calling out dark, occult practices that lurk within our plain, Anabaptist communities. And I am in high alert when I get a strong, sharp reaction against me doing so.

Perhaps Erika feels similarly attacked when Erika is trying to talk about IS issues etc. - I bet you are not "fully informed" on LGBT issues and IS issues, and how on earth could any of us expect you to be? That doesn't mean your opinion is invalid, does it?
I am not fully informed about alternative medicines but I know people who have had cancer that have been completely healed by them. To discard them all and call it 'witch doctor' and 'snake oil' etc is painting with a broad brush, and certainly we know that people have died by convention medicine as well. It should have been a peaceful discussion.
I asked Erika a simple question- she exaggerated people's responses to her and misunderstood and this is what we are constantly up against in these days we live- I simply asked a question to get clarification- she didn't appreciate 'your' response either, nor anyone's- I think Wayne in Maine had an excellent piece of advise for her.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: website.

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Erika wrote:I have decided to leave this website as it is one of the nastiest forums I have encountered.
The website seems to has the function of an inquisitor. Inquisitors simply are not Christian and who are more concerned about conforming to the mob rule rather than practicing Christian love. I think the martyrs would be ashamed of this website and it is no wonder American Anabaptists have had so many divisions, splits, railings, and hate. I bet this post gets removed. I will check later.
I will assume that you were expecting some sort of answer to your question. First, you may take not that you likely have people here who were chased and hounded out of their churches because they will not accept deviance from the teaching the church has taught for over 500 years. This may account for what you perceive as conclusion jumping.

Second, as far as the "born this way" argument that has appeared in much of the media, the evidence to support it is much less than conclusive. MRI may be able to show a "gay" brain physiology pattern, but know that neuroanatomy is not fixed for life, it changes due to time and stimulus. For the record, there is also an alcoholic brain and a drug addicted brain. We would not have the willingness to excuse sin (as the Bible describes it) in these cases, neither should we for this. While such a person may be extremely tempted in these areas, it still does not mean we should accept that lifelong habitual sin is the absolute consequence. Genetics is not destiny, at least through the grace of God.

Now to your issue. I am assuming by your description you are affected by some sort of Chimera type syndrome. I could not find any hard and fast rate of occurrence for this, I can only find single case reports. This means that it is quite rare. The average church has never seen this occur. To expect that the diverse group on this forum could produce any hard and fast position is way beyond anyone's competence here, especially since we don't know you, your background, and what your walk with God has been like in the past. I only understand this because of a Radiobiology course some 35 years ago.

This sort of issue can only be decided by a church that you have gotten to know for some period of time. I would assume they would hear you out, try to come to the best understanding of your situation they could, and spend some time in prayer for discernment. If such a thing occurred in my church, this is what I would expect to happen. I would not even want to guess the outcome, but submission to the leadership that God has put in place, and to the church is part of being a Mennonite.

I wish you the best, and really hope you follow Wayne and my advice.

J.M.
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