Affiliation

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Soloist

Re: Affiliation

Post by Soloist »

RZehr wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:55 pm
Soloist wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:28 pm
RZehr wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:19 pm I’m an ex-school boy.
(From the wife)

Yes, there are many stories going around about your and your siblings' ex-school days. In fact, my daughter told me she heard about your brother's bicycle slide shenanigans yesterday. We've used your family before as an example to our friends with lots of boys about how even the craziest of boys have hope and might end up ordained someday. ;)
Take those stories and divide by two, subtract half of what’s left and multiply by .1 and round down. That should about do it.

Unless of course it is a good account.
(wife) Most of what I hear from our children I have to round down on, especially when it involves their friend's Belizian excapades. :roll: I've heard the bicycle story from several people, although I am not quite sure if it was your family or one of our ministry's families. One might say it's a good account, if only for the epicness of it. :rofl: I think my favorite verified account is about a certain cousin of yours who was pulling his sister's pigtail giggling, and his sister cried, telling the teacher that he was saying, "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might!"

Funny that he got ordained somewhere else. Apparently, our churches around here ordain a lot of ex-schoolboys.
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justme

Re: Affiliation

Post by justme »

Soloist wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:50 am I think my favorite verified account is about a certain cousin of yours who was pulling his sister's pigtail giggling, and his sister cried, telling the teacher that he was saying, "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might!"
8-) :D
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Laurell
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:19 am
Affiliation: Midwest Fellowship

Re: Affiliation

Post by Laurell »

Josh wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:56 pm I think an affiliation should reflect where you feel comfortable going to church today, what denomination/group is closest to you.
So what denomination best identifies as "ex-atheist"? ;) I thought your affiliation previously was "holdie," which was a descriptor I found amusing
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Laurell
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:19 am
Affiliation: Midwest Fellowship

Re: Affiliation

Post by Laurell »

Josh wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:38 pm
Ken wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:22 pm
Josh wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:56 pm I think an affiliation should reflect where you feel comfortable going to church today, what denomination/group is closest to you.

I have noticed a lot of ethnic Mennonites still think of themselves as Mennonite in a way and describe themselves as "ex-Amish" or "ex-conservative Mennonite", etc. - I don't think describes an affiliation at all. Most people don't define themselves by "I am not this thing that I used to be". That is uniquely an ethnic Anabaptist thing to do.
Not really. I bet there are 100x more ex-Catholics out there than ex-Amish or ex-Mennonite.

My wife is ex-Catholic, but her world-view is still very much influenced by 12 years of Catholic school education followed by four years at a Catholic university and a youth and young-adulthood spent attending Catholic mass as well as the fact that her whole extended family and circle of friends is at least nominally Catholic. So every wedding, funeral, and high holiday like Christmas is always going to have a Catholic accent. You don’t shed all of that quite so easily.
Yeah really. Lots of people were raised Catholic. I can count on one hand the number of people I've known who describe themselves as "ex-Catholic" (which is hundreds of people, I'd guess, out of the people I know) to the same degree people readily describe themselves as ex-Amish or ex-plain.
I think that it really depends on the degree of catabolism you were raised with. I ask every single patient about religious affiliation, and I get a lot of people who described being raised Catholic but then identify as non-practicing. If I prod further, a lot of them describe the Catholic faith being formative to them in many ways. In these cases, I don't think it necessarily shapes their faith, but it's more like growing up in a house with 1 parent vs 2, growing up in the city vs the suburbs... it's just a descriptor that shapes you in own way or another, and people use the fabric patches of their life to explain the quilt they are today.
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Haystack

Re: Affiliation

Post by Haystack »

Josh wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:56 pm I have noticed a lot of ethnic Mennonites still think of themselves as Mennonite in a way and describe themselves as "ex-Amish" or "ex-conservative Mennonite", etc. - I don't think describes an affiliation at all. Most people don't define themselves by "I am not this thing that I used to be". That is uniquely an ethnic Anabaptist thing to do.
Also if you meet someone named Yoder, Stoltzfus, etc you already know they most likely have Anabaptist roots even if they aren't currently/weren't raised in a Anabaptist setting. Other affiliations might have common names in their circles, but a lot of them would be common outside their circles as well.
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Ken
Posts: 18487
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Affiliation

Post by Ken »

Haystack wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:31 am
Josh wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:56 pm I have noticed a lot of ethnic Mennonites still think of themselves as Mennonite in a way and describe themselves as "ex-Amish" or "ex-conservative Mennonite", etc. - I don't think describes an affiliation at all. Most people don't define themselves by "I am not this thing that I used to be". That is uniquely an ethnic Anabaptist thing to do.
Also if you meet someone named Yoder, Stoltzfus, etc you already know they most likely have Anabaptist roots even if they aren't currently/weren't raised in a Anabaptist setting. Other affiliations might have common names in their circles, but a lot of them would be common outside their circles as well.
That's true.

Although anyone with a Polish, Irish, or Italian name likely has Catholic roots. And likely anyone with an Hispanic last name as well. That is changing rapidly, but the Catholic roots are still there.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Josh

Re: Affiliation

Post by Josh »

Laurell wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:06 am
Josh wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:56 pm I think an affiliation should reflect where you feel comfortable going to church today, what denomination/group is closest to you.
So what denomination best identifies as "ex-atheist"? ;) I thought your affiliation previously was "holdie," which was a descriptor I found amusing
Certain people think “ex-Mennonite” is an affiliation, so I decided to put myself as an “ex” too.

The denomination that beat identifies as ex-atheist is, of course, the church of God.
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temporal1

Re: Affiliation

Post by temporal1 »

To repeat, all Protestants and Anabaptists have Catholic roots.
The inadvertant P+A founders didn’t want to leave Catholicism. They wanted to correct errors.
Questioning the Catholic Church, mostly by studied, literate Catholic monks+priests wasn’t at all new to the mid-1500’s.

The Gutenberg Press was new. It was the vehicle that made the greatest impact.
Laurell:
I think that it really depends on the degree of catabolism you were raised with.

I ask every single patient about religious affiliation, and I get a lot of people who described being raised Catholic but then identify as non-practicing.

If I prod further, a lot of them describe the Catholic faith being formative to them in many ways.

In these cases, I don't think it necessarily shapes their faith, but it's more like growing up in a house with 1 parent vs 2, growing up in the city vs the suburbs... it's just a descriptor that shapes you in own way or another,

and people use the fabric patches of their life to explain the quilt they are today.

This is a good description. It paints a picture of what you see IRL.
i see all of this, and a bit more.

my dear sil works in a very hep industry in So Cal. very hep.
“cool” is a very important word in these young men’s/people’s lives, altho they are in their advancing 40’s, a lot of U.S. culture swims in age/maturity denial. (has anyone noticed?) sometimes i’m tempted to suggest he’s used his lifetime supply of the word, he needs to find an alternate. i restrain myself. [sorry. my view of “cool” is a bunny trail.] where was i? .. .. Catholicism.

he was raised Catholic. he insisted on Catholicism for (their) child. we complied.

not easy for me. i was raised in a family staunchly against Catholicism, without explanation. of anything.

i’ve more recently learned my family history is mostly Protestant, with Quakers, Huguenots, Anabaptist, fringe Mormons, some Catholics, going back far enough, Charlemagne. i’ve read, probably most Western Europeans could find a connection to Charlemagne, including members here. 2 or 3 others here have found their link to him. Which may mean “most” here. :P

i was definitely raised with some Anabaptist beliefs, not stated as such. probably Quakers, too.
no infant baptism. adult baptism. reject politics, political bandwagons. military was a sober topic. value all stages life.
there were so many unspoken messages, i suspected Anabaptist roots, but only recently confirmed them.

i wish my parents+grandparents were here; boy, would i have questions for them! :blah:

(i think) unspoken messages are handed down through generations, like batons in relay races. some are intentional, not all.

i hold to the belief men should be leaders in their families. so. when my dear sil chose Catholicism, i thot it best for my daughter to comply. she was less hesitant than i. she didn’t have the direct messages i did from her grandmothers. in our family’s case, her husband made the decision - yet, doesn’t live by it! my daughter is fairly ambivalent, maybe resentful. my granddaughter is happy in her faith, altho public school has her questioning plenty now. :-| i’m a grateful visitor, grateful my granddaughter has a chance to hear Truth, in an utterly fallen pagan world.

i believe men are leaders in their families, whether they choose to be/want to be or not, or whether they are good leaders or not.
i believe it’s a God-designed phenomena, whether recognized, chosen, or not. [yet another topic.]

he uses Catholicism now+then as part of his identity? i honestly can’t detect much of a pattern. he once told my daughter he likes Catholicism because, “it’s like a club not everyone can get into.” (she picked him, i didn’t.) :?

i admire him in many ways. he’s a moral person, loyal, he supports his family, so many good qualities. truly.
from what i can tell, his friends at work are much the same. many good qualities. likely most came from Christian homes.
they unite in rejection of Catholicism, for sure! but Christianity, in general, too. for all the lib “national narrative” reasons, homosexuality, abortions, feminism, et al. they’re cool, definitely “with it.” i.e., with the (one lib) national narrative.

i’m bothered they do not give credit where credit is due.
they are certain they are good moral beings - in+of themselves. :shock:
:arrow: i believe this boils down to worship of self as god. today’s rampant paganism. i must be patient. :-|

i believe they deceive themselves and there will be a price. i pray for eyes to be opened.

i have spent my life listening to people who were raised in Christian homes deny it affected them, while taking full credit for whatever goodness may be in them as “their personal choice” springing up in them just because they’re so intrinsically awesome.

no one “just sprang out of nowhere,” just because they don’t know where. :P
Last edited by temporal1 on Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Neto

Re: Affiliation

Post by Neto »

Haystack wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:31 am
Josh wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:56 pm I have noticed a lot of ethnic Mennonites still think of themselves as Mennonite in a way and describe themselves as "ex-Amish" or "ex-conservative Mennonite", etc. - I don't think describes an affiliation at all. Most people don't define themselves by "I am not this thing that I used to be". That is uniquely an ethnic Anabaptist thing to do.
Also if you meet someone named Yoder, Stoltzfus, etc you already know they most likely have Anabaptist roots even if they aren't currently/weren't raised in a Anabaptist setting. Other affiliations might have common names in their circles, but a lot of them would be common outside their circles as well.
I have no idea how I got on their list, but I recently received a notice for the memorial service of a Unitarian university professor by the (Dutch Mennonite) name of Loewen. I did a search on him, and one article I read mentioned that his grandparents were "Mennonite immigrants". Finding people with a "Mennonite name" who are pagans just demonstrates very clearly that "God has no grandchildren". There was a discussion here some time ago where I was told that "Russian Mennonites" are more "hung up" on embarrassment due to hearing of a person with Mennonite heritage who is a criminal, an atheist, or a politician. I'm working on getting over it. (And I do have one famous relative who was a musician known to be an immoral drug user. But at least he changed his name.)
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Szdfan

Re: Affiliation

Post by Szdfan »

Neto wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:48 pm There was a discussion here some time ago where I was told that "Russian Mennonites" are more "hung up" on embarrassment due to hearing of a person with Mennonite heritage who is a criminal, an atheist, or a politician. I'm working on getting over it. (And I do have one famous relative who was a musician known to be an immoral drug user. But at least he changed his name.)
Are...are...you going to make us guess? Is it Jimi Hendrix?
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