Valerie wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 11:01 am
The accusation from Protestants is of "idol worship" regarding statues and icons.
Please explain why what you do regarding statues and icons is not idolatry please?
These practices don't come from Holy Scripture so how did they begin & why, what purpose and do you understand why Protestants see it as idolatry,?
TL;DR
Everything we do with icons we do with our fellow Christians who are physically with us. If how we venerate icons is idol worship, the Christian love we show our brothers and sisters in Christ would also have to be a kind of idol worship.
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It's important to know how we use icons in our services as well as how idols functioned in pagan worship. I'll start be attempting to describe these things.
So, how do Orthodox Christians use images when they worship? On its face, they are present on the walls of the church and reveal the fact that, when we gather for worship as the Body of Christ, that the entire Church is present. There are several stands in the church with particular icons (Christ, the Virgin Mary, and the patron of the Church) where the faithful can show respect to the faithful who have fallen asleep in the Lord. The way this is traditionally done is through bowing in front of and kissing the image of the saint and it is commonly referred to as venerating the icon. There are, of course, other ways of showing veneration to a saint such as placing flowers around/in front of the stand. Finally, the priest will cense the icons which adorn the church at various portions of the service. I do not think this is an exhaustive list, but it is certainly the most obvious. For more on the use of icons in Orthodox Christian practice, you can refer to
Image of the Invisible an episode of the Lord of Spirits podcast.
What is idol worship? Obviously, a lot of ink has been spilled over this question since the protestant reformation. However, if we go back to the time of Christ, virtually no one was asking this question because practically everyone did it. So when answering the question "What is idol worship" I think it would be best to refer back to that time period when Christians could see smoke rising above pagan altars.
It was largely understood a spiritual technology. For example, there were certain deities which were viewed as having influence over the fertility and virility of the human race (Ba'al being the archetypal example, but Zeus and Marduk are others). The spiritual technology was to invite the god to inhabit an object and the humans would provide hospitality to the god which was then understood to be possessing the idol. If x,y,z things are done for the idol, then you will be more likely to conceive and bear healthy children. Those things have to be done in a very particular way or they would not work. This is why the priest class was the literate class in the ancient world - they had to be able to perform the ritual correctly so they wrote down instructions. For more on how idols work in the ancient world, you can refer to
Scarecrows Among Cucumbers another episode of the Lord of Spirits podcast (please note that this one aired before Image of the Invisible so I would listen to this one first).
How icons function in the church is as much akin to idol worship as idol worship is to the relationship you have with your spouse. Or any other human for that matter (if you are a practicing Christian). That is, idol worship is a means to manipulate and dominate creation and other humans; icon veneration is a means to show love and respect and deference to others - departed saint or fellow parishioner alike.
The chief difference between the veneration we show to a saint in their icon and our Christian brothers and sisters with whom we talk to after church is that the latter are physically present with us and the former are not. As evidence of this being chief difference, all the things which I have described Orthodox Christians doing towards icons we do towards other Christians. We kiss each other, we prostrate before each other, we adorn our departed love ones with flowers at their funeral service, and the priest censes the entire congregation during the services of the church. The reason we do all these things - whether directed towards our fellow parishioners or towards the departed saints - is
ultimately because of the Incarnation of Christ and his commands to love God and to love one another. As to the latter, to love one another is to love God because we are icons of Christ and by loving and venerating each other, we are, therefore, loving Christ. As for the former, because Christ has condescended to our humanity, he raises up our embodied humanity to dwell with God and as such, he has made holy all of creation and has called upon all to do the same. This is a reason (if not the primary reason) for why the practice is a thing. The conclusion of the Martyrdom of Polycarp is a great example of the origins of such practices.
As for why Protestants view these things as idol worship, I understand it to be based primarily on an interpretation of the Second Commandment from the book of Exodus. I cannot think of any other reason why. Is there another reason why?
I must confess that my personal knowledge of pagan practices of idol worship are quite limited (thank God!). I could be off base. My primary point in discussing their practices even in such a limited capacity is to draw attention to what the apostles refer to as idol worship and what has been referred to as idol worship since the reformation. The former should be the reference point since it is what was discussed in the Scriptures.
I hope my response has been clear. If I missed an important aspect of your question, please let me know and I will endeavor to address it! I know this is a major concern for practically all Protestants and it can be a cause for a lot of tension between us. Rightfully so! If we were worshiping demons via idol worship, that would be terribly sinful. Hopefully, I have given an acceptable answer for why that is not the case.
"I publicly confess that this teaching clearly reveals truths that will afford us the blessings of life and I submit that the temples and altars that we have dedicated to no advantage be immediately desecrated and burned." [A.D. 627]