MLK and the churches behind him

[silentreader]

In my naivete I have been in 3 different what turned out to be Black only businesses all probably 30-35 years ago. The experiences were varied.
The first one was at a Piggly-Wiggly in or near Tyler, Texas. There it was unusual but not uncomfortable.
The second was at a gas station/convenience store in Mississippi. That was very much threatening.
The third time was at a MacDonald's, (I think) in or near Rochester NY. There it was uncomfortable but not threatening.

[Szdfan]

In my naivete I have been in 3 different what turned out to be Black only businesses all probably 30-35 years ago. The experiences were varied.
The first one was at a Piggly-Wiggly in or near Tyler, Texas. There it was unusual but not uncomfortable.
The second was at a gas station/convenience store in Mississippi. That was very much threatening.
The third time was at a MacDonald's, (I think) in or near Rochester NY. There it was uncomfortable but not threatening.

What made these experiences uncomfortable?

[temporal1]

I wouldn't expect anyone here to be well versed in such places.

But you never know with t1, she can be full of surprises. Nonetheless it did sound rather condescending.

i’m not exactly sure which comment you’re referring to here, but, thinking of the general question, i agree with Jeremy:

.. But it's not because of legal segregation that (prohibited) whites and black from congregating togther. ..

Legal separation, and forced integration are different from free choice. The U.S. eliminated legal separation and enforces integration (which made little difference in my life, my world was cross-cultural before 1964) .. to my knowledge, all the laws revolve around enforcement of POC to be included/represented everywhere, AND social+cultural pressures that support this. Not so in reverse.

i don’t believe the oversight was intentional. i believe it was an authentic oversight.

in many ways, various forms, there are places where (white) folks are not wanted, including places that are not safe.
and, even in safe places, they can be targeted for random attacks, like, being shot while waiting at a bus stop, drive-by shootings, and the “knockout game.” skin color. it’s common to refer to “the black community,” it would be scandalous to talk about “the white community.” more+more, any reference to “white” is directly tied to evil. it’s coming out of the White House. (by one of the whitest, and more questionable, men God ever created.)

human laws are ALWAYS imperfect. one law begets ten more. law schools and the Bar Association love it.

- - - - - -

Having said that.
i grew up on the doorstep of a large state university. my parents were suspicious of higher ed, having 4 daughters, they did not want us to be “led down the garden path” by some college guy with ill intentions, ALSO, there was a nearby military base - even more verboten! (it was closed in the early 1990’s, remnants remain.)

We were not to go near or have anything to do with the military base.
However, there were fringe businesses that served the enlisted. Not many. But distinct. Tattoo parlors, bars, strip clubs.
These were not temptations for me. No one i knew even talked about them.

FRINGE.
a lot happens on the fringes. it’s wrong to amplify fringes as-if they are greater than they are. they become useless distractions.
they are used for divisive politics, which, as intended, makes everything worse.

Presently, worse than ALL these fringe realities put together, are the problems of FATHERLESSNESS and black on black crime+violence. Thankfully, there are many good men who recognize these problems and are personally invested in turning things around. A monumental undertaking. Much of the damage due to well-meaning bad political policies. It’s really hard to undo bad law.

Talk about David+Goliath problems!
Prayers for the brave ones devoting their lives to God’s work.

[temporal1]

In my naivete I have been in 3 different what turned out to be Black only businesses all probably 30-35 years ago. The experiences were varied.
The first one was at a Piggly-Wiggly in or near Tyler, Texas. There it was unusual but not uncomfortable.
The second was at a gas station/convenience store in Mississippi. That was very much threatening.
The third time was at a MacDonald's, (I think) in or near Rochester NY. There it was uncomfortable but not threatening.

i can easily imagine all these things. For a period of years, things seemed to improve. i’m afraid things are worsening, i think because of politics and social media?? also, i sense movement out of cities into smaller communities?? local reports of young adults arrogantly shoplifting THOUSANDS in merchandise .. these reports do not strike me as “local kids pulling pranks.”

the local store videos i see reflect young people “on a mission” to steal, they know what they want, they grab it, fill shopping carts, and walk out the shops to late model cars, not expecting to be stopped. they don’t look like local kids to me. they appear to be detached and unconcerned about others. i guess they make stops off highways, hit local shops, take off.

shopping malls are built near highway exits.

living outside Chicago, people are accustomed to being looked down on by Chicagoans. They laugh at us.
our daughter noticed this when she went to the local state university, populated with a lot of Chicago students.
you know it, it’s not confined to any socio-economic group. it’s just part of life. they consider themselves vastly better.

when i do my minimal shopping, buying gasoline, going for dr appointments, i’m probably in the minority, if skin color is the determining factor. i’m not the wealthiest, not driving a late model car.

i’m not uncomfortable.
but i think most people are now skittish about the possibility of random violence, crime anywhere.
people are aware they may “see anything” at any time, day or night. crime, drugs, sex, violence.

i sense the typical POC i shop with are in the same boat i’m in. things are ok. but sadly, “edgy.”
the vast majority do not want this.

[silentreader]

In my naivete I have been in 3 different what turned out to be Black only businesses all probably 30-35 years ago. The experiences were varied.
The first one was at a Piggly-Wiggly in or near Tyler, Texas. There it was unusual but not uncomfortable.
The second was at a gas station/convenience store in Mississippi. That was very much threatening.
The third time was at a MacDonald's, (I think) in or near Rochester NY. There it was uncomfortable but not threatening.

What made these experiences uncomfortable?

We had taken a van load of elderly black car Mennonite uncles and aunts to a wedding in Texas and were returning home planning to stop to visit people we knew in Mississippi and Tennessee and needed to stop for gas and a washroom break. The place we stopped to get gas appeared fairly modern and clean. So I stopped at the pumps to get gas and the others started going in to use the indoor public washrooms. The gas pumps were self-serve but the person inside wouldn't turn the pump on. I don't know how many vehicles fueled up at other pumps before mine was finally switched on.
When I went to pay I wanted to buy something else that I could see he had behind the counter he told me that I'm better off leaving. So I paid for the gas and left. There were other nuances as well relating to using the washrooms that scared some of the older people.

In the Rochester restaurant it was just obvious that we were an unusual occurrence and were watched and talked about but not to the point of feeling threatened.

[Ken]

In my naivete I have been in 3 different what turned out to be Black only businesses all probably 30-35 years ago. The experiences were varied.
The first one was at a Piggly-Wiggly in or near Tyler, Texas. There it was unusual but not uncomfortable.
The second was at a gas station/convenience store in Mississippi. That was very much threatening.
The third time was at a MacDonald's, (I think) in or near Rochester NY. There it was uncomfortable but not threatening.

What made these experiences uncomfortable?

We had taken a van load of elderly black car Mennonite uncles and aunts to a wedding in Texas and were returning home planning to stop to visit people we knew in Mississippi and Tennessee and needed to stop for gas and a washroom break. The place we stopped to get gas appeared fairly modern and clean. So I stopped at the pumps to get gas and the others started going in to use the indoor public washrooms. The gas pumps were self-serve but the person inside wouldn't turn the pump on. I don't know how many vehicles fueled up at other pumps before mine was finally switched on.
When I went to pay I wanted to buy something else that I could see he had behind the counter he told me that I'm better off leaving. So I paid for the gas and left. There were other nuances as well relating to using the washrooms that scared some of the older people.

In the Rochester restaurant it was just obvious that we were an unusual occurrence and were watched and talked about but not to the point of feeling threatened.

Talk to any Black person who has traveled in the US, especially by car in rural areas and I would expect you will hear of a LOT more than three such experiences in their lives. Including similar such stories at the hands of law enforcement.

[silentreader]

What made these experiences uncomfortable?

We had taken a van load of elderly black car Mennonite uncles and aunts to a wedding in Texas and were returning home planning to stop to visit people we knew in Mississippi and Tennessee and needed to stop for gas and a washroom break. The place we stopped to get gas appeared fairly modern and clean. So I stopped at the pumps to get gas and the others started going in to use the indoor public washrooms. The gas pumps were self-serve but the person inside wouldn't turn the pump on. I don't know how many vehicles fueled up at other pumps before mine was finally switched on.
When I went to pay I wanted to buy something else that I could see he had behind the counter he told me that I'm better off leaving. So I paid for the gas and left. There were other nuances as well relating to using the washrooms that scared some of the older people.

In the Rochester restaurant it was just obvious that we were an unusual occurrence and were watched and talked about but not to the point of feeling threatened.

Talk to any Black person who has traveled in the US, especially by car in rural areas and I would expect you will hear of a LOT more than three such experiences in their lives. Including similar such stories at the hands of law enforcement.

I have no doubt that is true. Those were the only 3 experiences I have had in Black establishments.

[Ken]

We had taken a van load of elderly black car Mennonite uncles and aunts to a wedding in Texas and were returning home planning to stop to visit people we knew in Mississippi and Tennessee and needed to stop for gas and a washroom break. The place we stopped to get gas appeared fairly modern and clean. So I stopped at the pumps to get gas and the others started going in to use the indoor public washrooms. The gas pumps were self-serve but the person inside wouldn't turn the pump on. I don't know how many vehicles fueled up at other pumps before mine was finally switched on.
When I went to pay I wanted to buy something else that I could see he had behind the counter he told me that I'm better off leaving. So I paid for the gas and left. There were other nuances as well relating to using the washrooms that scared some of the older people.

In the Rochester restaurant it was just obvious that we were an unusual occurrence and were watched and talked about but not to the point of feeling threatened.

Talk to any Black person who has traveled in the US, especially by car in rural areas and I would expect you will hear of a LOT more than three such experiences in their lives. Including similar such stories at the hands of law enforcement.

I have no doubt that is true. Those were the only 3 experiences I have had in Black establishments.

Of course. And living in the south there have been times when I have looked around and realized I was the only White person around and was getting stares that might make someone uncomfortable. Same thing on Indian reservations once or twice. But I suspect those experiences pale in comparison to what non-White people experience on a regular basis when they navigate the vast parts of the US that are mostly White.

[Josh]

“vast parts of the U.S. that are mostly white” - well that sure isn’t any major cities anymore, where you’ve assured us most people live, Ken. I’m a minority based in skin colour alone+not being Hispanic if I go into a typical city.

Ken, if you really want to continue this line of reasoning, do you want to talk about violence between people of different ethnicities/races or would you rather just end this now?

[temporal1]

“vast parts of the U.S. that are mostly white” - well that sure isn’t any major cities anymore, where you’ve assured us most people live .. .. I’m a minority based in skin colour alone+not being Hispanic if I go into a typical city. .. ..

i find it reprehensible, altho 100% predictable, that silentreader’s thoughtful and honest observations “must be” immediately dismissed and silenced ..

it’s more of the peculiar reasoning, “minority voices MUST be heard!” - until they become the majority, or, even better, the majority legal power, then, it’s step aside, “majority rules.” it’s like magic. sleight of hand.

i believe, according to scriptures, “the scales” of what is sinful/criminal/unjust, are not tipped for skin color or by tribes.
This is where human law seeks to be “smarter than God,” and fails miserably.