Conspiracy Theories and Hate: Protocols of the Elders of Zion

[Bootstrap]

A historical perspective on conspiracy theories is also helpful, they have been really important to authoritarian governments and even Nazis and Communists, they have fueled pogroms and a lot of other nasty things. So I think caution is warranted.

I would suggest that one remembers for historical perspective the most famous conspiracy theory of all time, "The Protocols of the Learned Eldes of Zion." Point is, they typically don't end well.

It's useful to look at the elements of this kind of conspiracy theory, how it has panned out over time, and what it does for people who believe in it.

A few references:

• Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Jewish Holocaust Museum)
• A Hoax of Hate: The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (ADL)
• The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Wikipedia)

Here's a line from Wikipedia:

Distillations of it were assigned by some German teachers, as if factual, to be read by German schoolchildren after the Nazis came to power in 1933, despite having been exposed as fraudulent by the British newspaper The Times in 1921 and the German Frankfurter Zeitung in 1924.

But if someone is inclined to believe this, how can you possibly prove that there is NOT an international conspiracy of Jews who are secretly plotting to take away all our freedoms? After all, I cannot prove to you that you shouldn't expect a pink elephant to burst into your home chewing bubble gum and tap dancing. Secret plots and vivid futures are impossible to disprove.

So if someone wants to believe this kind of thing - perhaps because they hate and fear Jews - it's impossible to prove them wrong, at least to their satisfaction. They probably don't believe it because of solid evidence, because that evidence does not exist.

[Josh]

delete, got my threads mixed up

[Judas Maccabeus]

A historical perspective on conspiracy theories is also helpful, they have been really important to authoritarian governments and even Nazis and Communists, they have fueled pogroms and a lot of other nasty things. So I think caution is warranted.

I would suggest that one remembers for historical perspective the most famous conspiracy theory of all time, "The Protocols of the Learned Eldes of Zion." Point is, they typically don't end well.

It's useful to look at the elements of this kind of conspiracy theory, how it has panned out over time, and what it does for people who believe in it.

A few references:

• Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Jewish Holocaust Museum)
• A Hoax of Hate: The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (ADL)
• The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Wikipedia)

Here's a line from Wikipedia:

Distillations of it were assigned by some German teachers, as if factual, to be read by German schoolchildren after the Nazis came to power in 1933, despite having been exposed as fraudulent by the British newspaper The Times in 1921 and the German Frankfurter Zeitung in 1924.

But if someone is inclined to believe this, how can you possibly prove that there is NOT an international conspiracy of Jews who are secretly plotting to take away all our freedoms? After all, I cannot prove to you that you shouldn't expect a pink elephant to burst into your home chewing bubble gum and tap dancing. Secret plots and vivid futures are impossible to disprove.

So if someone wants to believe this kind of thing - perhaps because they hate and fear Jews - it's impossible to prove them wrong, at least to their satisfaction. They probably don't believe it because of solid evidence, because that evidence does not exist.

Henry Ford was a big promoter of this. What effect it had on American foreign policy during the interwar years could only be a guess, but the possibility is that it cost tens of thousand lives.

J.M.

[barnhart]

I just read an article in Smithsonian magazine about the phenomenon of insulting images and inscriptions about Jews built into German church buildings. It seems the coalition of those who are not much troubled by it and those who want to preserve the historical record is large enough that the carvings will be on public display in churches for the foreseeable future.

I realized the Protocols are likely of Russian origin but they received warm welcome in German culture. I see strains of anti-semitism going back through Luther deep into the middle ages and maybe earlier. Has this heritage of sin been conquered in German anabaptists. Are there ways it might reemerge in another form.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I just read an article in Smithsonian magazine about the phenomenon of insulting images and inscriptions about Jews built into German church buildings. It seems the coalition of those who are not much troubled by it and those who want to preserve the historical record is large enough that the carvings will be on public display in churches for the foreseeable future.

I realized the Protocols are likely of Russian origin but they received warm welcome in German culture. I see strains of anti-semitism going back through Luther deep into the middle ages and maybe earlier. Has this heritage of sin been conquered in German anabaptists. Are there ways it might reemerge in another form.

From the early Mennonite camp, Balthasar Hubmaier was involved in starting a pogram. This happened during his period as a Catholic priest.

“” after Maximilian I's death in 1519, Hubmaier helped orchestrate a violent pogrom against Regensburg's Jews, as well as the total destruction of their synagogue; after the Jews' murder and expulsion, he was instrumental in orchestrating—near the site of the erstwhile synagogue—an image cult of the Beautiful Maria of Regensburg which drew pilgrims from all over Europe and was much criticized by Reformers. ””

(From the wiki article)

As to their current state, Boot or one of the European brothers could tell you that.

J.M.

[Ken]

I realized the Protocols are likely of Russian origin but they received warm welcome in German culture. I see strains of anti-semitism going back through Luther deep into the middle ages and maybe earlier. Has this heritage of sin been conquered in German anabaptists. Are there ways it might reemerge in another form.

I sort of doubt that anti-semitism would be a thing emerging out of German Anabaptists (or any Anabaptists) as any sort of religiously-based philosophy. To the extent that German Anabaptists or any Anabaptists pick up strains of anti-semitism, I would expect they are getting it from the wider culture, not their specific church.

[PetrChelcicky]

The elements of truth in the "Protocols" were:
(a) Since the mid-19th century there existed two worldwide organisation of Jews for to promote the advancement of the tribe. One of them - B'nai B'rith - was indeed a secret society formed after the model of the Freemasons.
(b) The way the Protocols described how to gain dominance via finance and media was quite realistic. Admittedly it was not developed w.r.t. the Jews but by a Frenchman w.r.t. the ascendency of Napoleon II.

The problem of the Jews was that they tried to shift the debate on a field where they had the best chance to win a victory, namely the literal truthfulness of the report about a conspiracy of rabbis in Prague. But the antisemites said openly that this part of the story didn't really interest them and that they wanted to speak about growing Jewish power via finance and media. But that was just what the Jews didn't want to speak about. So the conflict remained unsolved.

[PetrChelcicky]

Correction: Should have been Napoleon III.