Secret to durable ancient Roman concrete revealed

[ohio jones]

In fact, the science of concrete recipes, also known as mix design, has advanced to levels a Roman engineer could only dream of.

Absolutely. It's routine in my area (though it differs somewhat from one ready-mix supplier to another) for concrete that's specified to have 4000 psi strength to achieve 28-day test results of 6000 to 7500 psi.

[Heirbyadoption]

Ken: The direction of the dialog here is in the relevancy of destruction vs transformation. It would be good if you were to keep to that direction instead of lecturing others on that which you view as fact.

I'm confused, I guess... Was what Ken shared not actually historical fact, as opposed to Josh's generalization that "Christianity" replaced "Roman civilization" (by implication, with the fall of said Roman empire)...?

If it were to be examined closely, it was incomplete fact and one that was meant to derail Josh's points. Such behaviors that target an individual to embarrass him is unacceptable. The important point here is that Josh and I were having a discussion regarding God and the destruction of worldly kingdoms. Interruptions of that exchange for selfish reasons is not acceptable.

I do understand your thought, I sympathize with it, and frankly the two of them ought to have more time outs for their rather constant Pavlovian replies to each other, but keeping order on MN ain't what it used to be so most of us just try to ignore the nonsense as best we can. Nevertheless, in spite of the fact that I utterly disagree with some of Ken's ideology, Josh's generalization was equally (if not more so) "incomplete fact". I may be a bit biased here due to having to do conflict resolution for 7 and 8 year old boys in my home every day, but I suppose my encourage would simply be to play fair here if we're going to hand out rebukes. And I'll bow out now in order to allow you to (hopefully) pursue an effective discussion regarding God and the destruction of worldly kingdoms.

On a related note to the OP title, I wish the Romans could redo some of the roads back here around Baltimore. They'd certainly last longer.

[MaxPC]

And I'll bow out now in order to allow you to (hopefully) pursue an effective discussion regarding God and the destruction of worldly kingdoms.
On a related note to the OP title, I wish the Romans could redo some of the roads back here around Baltimore. They'd certainly last longer.

I have seen those roads in Baltimore. I think they are in much better shape than Interstate 10 in LA. Your point about infrastructure though, is valid. If you are concerned about fair play, feel free to PM me so that you can have all the facts.

Regarding roads, there are still a few concrete roads in the USA. Some are buckling, others are being replaced with asphalt. Concrete does seem to be at its best when it is in a stacked or foundational design. Flying buttresses and concrete pilings in sea water do not seem to fair as well.

[Heirbyadoption]

And I'll bow out now in order to allow you to (hopefully) pursue an effective discussion regarding God and the destruction of worldly kingdoms.
On a related note to the OP title, I wish the Romans could redo some of the roads back here around Baltimore. They'd certainly last longer.

I have seen those roads in Baltimore. I think they are in much better shape than Interstate 10 in LA. Your point about infrastructure though, is valid. If you are concerned about fair play, feel free to PM me so that you can have all the facts.

Regarding roads, there are still a few concrete roads in the USA. Some are buckling, others are being replaced with asphalt. Concrete does seem to be at its best when it is in a stacked or foundational design. Flying buttresses and concrete pilings in sea water do not seem to fair as well.

As for facts, thank you for the offer. I've been on here for many years and seen most of it, including with these two.

My family out in CA has been noticing this week just how NOT-well some of those things do with sea water and rough storms, it seems... Lots of storm damage along the central CA coast, piers collapsing, homes flooding, etc. The twin powers of (Almighty controlled) nature and time never cease to amaze me when I see how easily our man-made things crumble before it, be it roads, piers, or even empire!.

[MaxPC]

My family out in CA has been noticing this week just how NOT-well some of those things do with sea water and rough storms, it seems... Lots of storm damage along the central CA coast, piers collapsing, homes flooding, etc. The twin powers of (Almighty controlled) nature and time never cease to amaze me when I see how easily our man-made things crumble before it, be it roads, piers, or even empire!.

Yes, it is sad but it also reminds one of the hubris of the human race. Notably, Roman concrete is just as vulnerable and modern concrete in the face of sea water and storms.

[Ken]

This is the Tower of Hercules, a Roman lighthouse built on the north coast of Spain. It was built under the emperor Trajan in the 1st Century of stone with Roman concrete used a mortar and masonry. It has withstood salt air and sea spray for two millennium.

[ken_sylvania]

This is the Tower of Hercules, a Roman lighthouse built on the north coast of Spain. It was built under the emperor Trajan in the 1st Century of stone with Roman concrete used a mortar and masonry. It has withstood salt air and sea spray for two millennium.

Definitely longer than any modern concrete has lasted.

[MaxPC]

Definitely longer than any modern concrete has lasted.

These structures are repaired periodically as a part of a heritage trust. That particular one has seen a number of repairs (and modifications) through the centuries. Were it submerged for centuries in the sea, it too would have crumbled.

[Outsider]

Early Christians used the opportunities at hand: they were quite versatile and resilient. If Paul had been a citizen of Tanzania or India, most certainly he would have used that advantage to spread the Gospel. There were quite a few byways that were not Roman roads, particularly in the areas north of the empire, yet Christianity found its way there. The Apostle Thomas took the Gospel to India without Roman roads.

But he probably took a Roman road to a Roman Port to take ship to Kerala (where the Romans had a trading post) which is where the oldest continuous congregation in the world, the Church of St.Thomas is located- and where local history places his port of entry into India.

I do not think Rome and its tech was essential to the spread of the Gospel. It merely provided a convenience in certain areas. As we have seen in our respective histories, convenience was not a requirement for the spread of the Good News.

But the roads and the infrastructure which allowed safe long-distance travel made the Gospel spread that much faster. I've always agreed with the school of thought that says God chose the time of Rome to send Christ for that very reason.

[Outsider]

Maybe this is obvious, but Roman concrete was employed only in compression, never (as far as I know) in tension. The use of concrete in tension generally (always?) required reinforcement, usually steel, which is the failure point.

I've heard that they've been able to stop the corrosion of steel by passing a low-voltage current through it- and have been doing so on bridges over waterways for some time now...

https://www.sdgenews.com/article/cool-s ... -corrosion