MennoNet and Genealogy

[Szdfan]

It is interesting to me that there are numerous words in the PA Deutsch that are also in Yiddish. I am not sure which direction the 'contamination' went but I am guessing it was Schwaben Deutsch words that were taken into the Yiddish.

Yiddish is influenced by High German, not Schwaben Deutsch. Ashkenazim Jews came to Central Europe during the Roman era and it's believed that Yiddish first emerged among Jews in the Rhineland Valley.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish

The established view is that, as with other Jewish languages, Jews speaking distinct languages learned new co-territorial vernaculars, which they then Judaized. In the case of Yiddish, this scenario sees it as emerging when speakers of Zarphatic (Judeo-French) and other Judeo-Romance languages began to acquire varieties of Middle High German, and from these groups the Ashkenazi community took shape. Exactly what German substrate underlies the earliest form of Yiddish is disputed. The Jewish community in the Rhineland would have encountered the Middle High German dialects from which the Rhenish German dialects of the modern period would emerge. Jewish communities of the high medieval period would have been speaking their own versions of these German dialects, mixed with linguistic elements that they themselves brought into the region, including many Hebrew and Aramaic words, but there is also Romance.

The word "Yiddish" comes from "yidish daytsh" (Jewish German) and is a corruption of the German word for Jewish (jüdisch)

[Szdfan]

Yiddish is close to/influence by German. PA Dutch, as has been said, is really PA Deutsch. That is, Deutsch is German. So the Yiddish/Deutsch connection is pretty obvious.

I can understand both bits of PA Dutch and Yiddish because of my fluency in High German. There's also a lot of Hebrew in Yiddish that I don't understand.

When the state of Israel was formed it was apparently a close call whether to make the official language Hebrew or Yiddish. Yiddish was favored by conservative religious Jews and more spoken by the lower classes. Hebrew was favored by the more cultural and political elite.

Apparently, Yiddish was banned in Israel from the 1950s until the 80s but has made a revival since then.

[Josh]

Yiddish is estimated to be 200,000 speakers in Israel. For comparison, standard German is estimated (in Israel) to be 100,000 speakers.

Yiddish is estimated to have 100,000 speakers in America and PA Dutch 300,000... although those numbers probably are higher now than when this data was last collected. There are about 400,000 Amish people in America and it can be safely assumed nearly all of them are PA Dutch speakers. Some analysts think the number of Yiddish speakers is also growing. For comparison, about 1.9 million Americans claim to speak German as a first language, most likely because they are migrants from a German-speaking country.

[silentreader]

It is interesting to me that there are numerous words in the PA Deutsch that are also in Yiddish. I am not sure which direction the 'contamination' went but I am guessing it was Schwaben Deutsch words that were taken into the Yiddish.

Yiddish is influenced by High German, not Schwaben Deutsch. Ashkenazim Jews came to Central Europe during the Roman era and it's believed that Yiddish first emerged among Jews in the Rhineland Valley.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish

The established view is that, as with other Jewish languages, Jews speaking distinct languages learned new co-territorial vernaculars, which they then Judaized. In the case of Yiddish, this scenario sees it as emerging when speakers of Zarphatic (Judeo-French) and other Judeo-Romance languages began to acquire varieties of Middle High German, and from these groups the Ashkenazi community took shape. Exactly what German substrate underlies the earliest form of Yiddish is disputed. The Jewish community in the Rhineland would have encountered the Middle High German dialects from which the Rhenish German dialects of the modern period would emerge. Jewish communities of the high medieval period would have been speaking their own versions of these German dialects, mixed with linguistic elements that they themselves brought into the region, including many Hebrew and Aramaic words, but there is also Romance.

The word "Yiddish" comes from "yidish daytsh" (Jewish German) and is a corruption of the German word for Jewish (jüdisch)

If you look back you'll notice I said 'contamination' not origin. There are several words that are pretty much exactly the same in pronunciation and meaning in PA Deutsch and in Yiddish. One that readily comes to mind is 'mensch'.
We live in a largish (real) Dutch community. Our common language is English.

[Szdfan]

It is interesting to me that there are numerous words in the PA Deutsch that are also in Yiddish. I am not sure which direction the 'contamination' went but I am guessing it was Schwaben Deutsch words that were taken into the Yiddish.

Yiddish is influenced by High German, not Schwaben Deutsch. Ashkenazim Jews came to Central Europe during the Roman era and it's believed that Yiddish first emerged among Jews in the Rhineland Valley.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish

The established view is that, as with other Jewish languages, Jews speaking distinct languages learned new co-territorial vernaculars, which they then Judaized. In the case of Yiddish, this scenario sees it as emerging when speakers of Zarphatic (Judeo-French) and other Judeo-Romance languages began to acquire varieties of Middle High German, and from these groups the Ashkenazi community took shape. Exactly what German substrate underlies the earliest form of Yiddish is disputed. The Jewish community in the Rhineland would have encountered the Middle High German dialects from which the Rhenish German dialects of the modern period would emerge. Jewish communities of the high medieval period would have been speaking their own versions of these German dialects, mixed with linguistic elements that they themselves brought into the region, including many Hebrew and Aramaic words, but there is also Romance.

The word "Yiddish" comes from "yidish daytsh" (Jewish German) and is a corruption of the German word for Jewish (jüdisch)

If you look back you'll notice I said 'contamination' not origin. There are several words that are pretty much exactly the same in pronunciation and meaning in PA Deutsch and in Yiddish. One that readily comes to mind is 'mensch'.
We live in a largish (real) Dutch community. Our common language is English.

"Mensch" is the high German word for "person."The word originates from the Old High German word "mennisco."

PA Dutch and Yiddish both got that word from German.

What other words are similar in PA Dutch and Yiddish?

[Soloist]

It is interesting to me that there are numerous words in the PA Deutsch that are also in Yiddish. I am not sure which direction the 'contamination' went but I am guessing it was Schwaben Deutsch words that were taken into the Yiddish.

Yiddish is influenced by High German, not Schwaben Deutsch. Ashkenazim Jews came to Central Europe during the Roman era and it's believed that Yiddish first emerged among Jews in the Rhineland Valley.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish

The established view is that, as with other Jewish languages, Jews speaking distinct languages learned new co-territorial vernaculars, which they then Judaized. In the case of Yiddish, this scenario sees it as emerging when speakers of Zarphatic (Judeo-French) and other Judeo-Romance languages began to acquire varieties of Middle High German, and from these groups the Ashkenazi community took shape. Exactly what German substrate underlies the earliest form of Yiddish is disputed. The Jewish community in the Rhineland would have encountered the Middle High German dialects from which the Rhenish German dialects of the modern period would emerge. Jewish communities of the high medieval period would have been speaking their own versions of these German dialects, mixed with linguistic elements that they themselves brought into the region, including many Hebrew and Aramaic words, but there is also Romance.

The word "Yiddish" comes from "yidish daytsh" (Jewish German) and is a corruption of the German word for Jewish (jüdisch)

Wife: Speaking of genealogies and language similarities, I found out that the meaning of an ancestor’s maiden name was “grasping innkeeper”. Oy.

I’m sure someone could guess the ethnicity of that relative, and maybe the language similarity might get you to guess close to the name. Google or chatgpt is cheating

[Szdfan]

It is interesting to me that there are numerous words in the PA Deutsch that are also in Yiddish. I am not sure which direction the 'contamination' went but I am guessing it was Schwaben Deutsch words that were taken into the Yiddish.

Yiddish is influenced by High German, not Schwaben Deutsch. Ashkenazim Jews came to Central Europe during the Roman era and it's believed that Yiddish first emerged among Jews in the Rhineland Valley.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish

The established view is that, as with other Jewish languages, Jews speaking distinct languages learned new co-territorial vernaculars, which they then Judaized. In the case of Yiddish, this scenario sees it as emerging when speakers of Zarphatic (Judeo-French) and other Judeo-Romance languages began to acquire varieties of Middle High German, and from these groups the Ashkenazi community took shape. Exactly what German substrate underlies the earliest form of Yiddish is disputed. The Jewish community in the Rhineland would have encountered the Middle High German dialects from which the Rhenish German dialects of the modern period would emerge. Jewish communities of the high medieval period would have been speaking their own versions of these German dialects, mixed with linguistic elements that they themselves brought into the region, including many Hebrew and Aramaic words, but there is also Romance.

The word "Yiddish" comes from "yidish daytsh" (Jewish German) and is a corruption of the German word for Jewish (jüdisch)

Wife: Speaking of genealogies and language similarities, I found out that the meaning of an ancestor’s maiden name was “grasping innkeeper”. Oy.

I’m sure someone could guess the ethnicity of that relative, and maybe the language similarity might get you to guess close to the name. Google or chatgpt is cheating

I cheated. That is interesting

[ohio jones]

Wife: Speaking of genealogies and language similarities, I found out that the meaning of an ancestor’s maiden name was “grasping innkeeper”. Oy.

This is not genealogically related, and doesn't give anything away, but my favorite fictional innkeeper name is Barliman Butterbur of Bree, proprietor of the Prancing Pony.

[Szdfan]

Wife: Speaking of genealogies and language similarities, I found out that the meaning of an ancestor’s maiden name was “grasping innkeeper”. Oy.

This is not genealogically related, and doesn't give anything away, but my favorite fictional innkeeper name is Barliman Butterbur of Bree, proprietor of the Prancing Pony.

Nerd.