The Collapse of America

[Ken]

Oh, I think too it's a very fair question. But I don't expect Ken to be willing to admit that the only known homicide in DC that day related to the riot involving a police officer, involved a police officer shooting a protester.

I was referring to the Officer Sicknick episode. But I see now from the reporting that they have retracted the initial reports of murder and have just arrested people for assault, no murder. Oddly the investigation is still pending. It's not something I'm following closely. Apparently we still don't know if it was homicide or just violent assault on a police officer:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/le ... story.html

Federal authorities have arrested and charged two men with assaulting U.S. Capitol Police officer Brian D. Sicknick with an unknown chemical spray during the Jan. 6 Capitol riot but have not determined whether the exposure caused his death.

Julian Elie Khater, 32, of Pennsylvania and George Pierre Tanios, 39, of Morgantown, W.Va., were taken into custody Sunday. Authorities said they grew up together in New Jersey.

“Give me that bear sh--,” Khater said to Tanios on video recorded at 2:14 p.m. at the Lower West Terrace of the Capitol, where Sicknick and other officers were standing guard behind metal bicycle racks, arrest papers say.

About nine minutes later, after Khater said he had been sprayed with something, Khater is seen on video discharging a canister of a toxic substance into the face of Sicknick and two other officers, arrest papers allege.

Khater and Tanios are each charged with nine counts, including assaulting three officers with a deadly weapon — Sicknick, another U.S. Capitol Police officer identified as C. Edwards and a D.C. police officer identified as B. Chapman. They are also charged with civil disorder and obstruction of a congressional proceeding. The charges are punishable by up to 20 years in prison.

More than 300 people have been charged in the assault on the Capitol, with charges expected for at least 100 more in what authorities describe as one of the largest investigations in American history. More than 40 people stand accused of assaulting police officers, who were punched, choked, dragged down stairs and beaten with their own riot shields.

Sicknick died one day after the riot. The case involving his death has been one of the biggest mysteries, absent a definitive ruling on how he died and whether anyone would, or could, be held accountable. Autopsy results remain pending almost 10 weeks after the insurrection.

Questions remain about whether anyone will be held criminally responsible in Sicknick’s death. Without a cause of death, his case has not been established as a homicide.

It remains unclear what role if any the video-recorded assault on Sicknick played in his death. Investigators have also determined that he did not die of blunt-force trauma, people familiar with the matter said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation.

An FBI agent alleged in charging papers that publicly available video showed that after Khater asked for the spray, Tanios replied: “Hold on, hold on, not yet, not yet . . . it’s still early.” The agent said the exchange showed that the two were “working in concert and had a plan to use the toxic spray against law enforcement.”

. . . . .

Authorities have said that 139 police officers were assaulted by Trump supporters wielding sledgehammers, baseball bats, hockey sticks, crutches and flagpoles. Police have testified that at least 800 people entered the Capitol after a smaller number forced their way in, seeking to block Congress from confirming the November presidential election victory of Joe Biden.

[ken_sylvania]

Oh, I think too it's a very fair question. But I don't expect Ken to be willing to admit that the only known homicide in DC that day related to the riot involving a police officer, involved a police officer shooting a protester.

I was referring to the Officer Sicknick episode. But I see now from the reporting that they have retracted the initial reports of murder and have just arrested people for assault, no murder. Oddly the investigation is still pending. It's not something I'm following closely. Apparently we still don't know if it was homicide or just violent assault on a police officer:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/le ... story.html

Federal authorities have arrested and charged two men with assaulting U.S. Capitol Police officer Brian D. Sicknick with an unknown chemical spray during the Jan. 6 Capitol riot but have not determined whether the exposure caused his death.

Julian Elie Khater, 32, of Pennsylvania and George Pierre Tanios, 39, of Morgantown, W.Va., were taken into custody Sunday. Authorities said they grew up together in New Jersey.

“Give me that bear sh--,” Khater said to Tanios on video recorded at 2:14 p.m. at the Lower West Terrace of the Capitol, where Sicknick and other officers were standing guard behind metal bicycle racks, arrest papers say.

About nine minutes later, after Khater said he had been sprayed with something, Khater is seen on video discharging a canister of a toxic substance into the face of Sicknick and two other officers, arrest papers allege.

Khater and Tanios are each charged with nine counts, including assaulting three officers with a deadly weapon — Sicknick, another U.S. Capitol Police officer identified as C. Edwards and a D.C. police officer identified as B. Chapman. They are also charged with civil disorder and obstruction of a congressional proceeding. The charges are punishable by up to 20 years in prison.

More than 300 people have been charged in the assault on the Capitol, with charges expected for at least 100 more in what authorities describe as one of the largest investigations in American history. More than 40 people stand accused of assaulting police officers, who were punched, choked, dragged down stairs and beaten with their own riot shields.

Sicknick died one day after the riot. The case involving his death has been one of the biggest mysteries, absent a definitive ruling on how he died and whether anyone would, or could, be held accountable. Autopsy results remain pending almost 10 weeks after the insurrection.

Questions remain about whether anyone will be held criminally responsible in Sicknick’s death. Without a cause of death, his case has not been established as a homicide.

It remains unclear what role if any the video-recorded assault on Sicknick played in his death. Investigators have also determined that he did not die of blunt-force trauma, people familiar with the matter said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation.

An FBI agent alleged in charging papers that publicly available video showed that after Khater asked for the spray, Tanios replied: “Hold on, hold on, not yet, not yet . . . it’s still early.” The agent said the exchange showed that the two were “working in concert and had a plan to use the toxic spray against law enforcement.”

. . . . .

Authorities have said that 139 police officers were assaulted by Trump supporters wielding sledgehammers, baseball bats, hockey sticks, crutches and flagpoles. Police have testified that at least 800 people entered the Capitol after a smaller number forced their way in, seeking to block Congress from confirming the November presidential election victory of Joe Biden.

Thank you for the correction. I have no love for the violence that took place that day, but I think this is a good example of how our viewpoint of history is affected by the agenda those who report the news.
In this case, there was a rush to publish information that was not fully vetted, with the stories high in the headlines and prominently placed. The retractions in large part were much less forceful and less visibly placed, so that many of us were left believing that Sicknick had actually been beaten over the head by a protester. I believed that as well until Josh's comment above.

[Ken]

Thank you for the correction. I have no love for the violence that took place that day, but I think this is a good example of how our viewpoint of history is affected by the agenda those who report the news.
In this case, there was a rush to publish information that was not fully vetted, with the stories high in the headlines and prominently placed. The retractions in large part were much less forceful and less visibly placed, so that many of us were left believing that Sicknick had actually been beaten over the head by a protester. I believed that as well until Josh's comment above.

Yeah. I honestly followed it pretty closely for about a week and then after the Biden inauguration I pretty much moved on and haven't followed the day-to-day developments since then. Apparently there was a recent Frontline investigative report from this past weekend that is pretty good and in-depth that includes all the recent developments but I didn't watch it. It is available for streaming though. I'm just not that interested anymore, so much else is happening in the world and I trust the justice system to mostly sort out the truly guilty from those who were just there and didn't do much.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... urrection/

[temporal1]

I expect this next 12-36 months we will experience a economic boom, the likes of which haven’t been seen in a generation.

RZehr,
Present expectations?

[RZehr]

I expect this next 12-36 months we will experience a economic boom, the likes of which haven’t been seen in a generation.

RZehr,
Present expectations?

Same as before. Things are red hot right now. I was at a medium sized Ford dealership, and they only had two new vehicles on their lot available to sell. One small Ranger pickup, and one small car. And then they had a dozen or so used vehicles. Same story with other kinds of businesses. Things are so hot now that they can't keep product in stock to sell. If the economy boils over so much that businesses simply can't get product, then they may have to lay people off. No point in keeping a dozen car salesmen on payroll if you have nothing to sell. Same with factories. If we can't get necessary components, you can't keep the manufacturing process going, and if you can't manufacture, there is little sense in paying their employees to stand there doing nothing. And yet companies dare not lay off employees either right now, because good employees are scarce as hens teeth.

I think the nations economy is going to continue at break neck pace, but the supply lines are the weak link. From manufacturing to shipping, everything is to the melting point, they just cannot keep up.

The reasons I don't see it stopping anytime real soon, is because (1) I don't see any more labor becoming available soon, (2) the supply chain cannot increase capacity with any sort of speed, and (3) factories cannot be expanded or built quickly. All the while the government keeps pumping more cash into the consumers pockets even though products can't be built fast enough to be bought, and employees can't be hired fast enough for the cash to be spent on services. Wages are continuing to move upward at the lowest pay scale. Yesterday, I went through the McDonalds drive through and they were advertising jobs at $17.50 - $18.50 plus a $1,500 sign up bonus. So it's not just the government pumping money into consumers pockets, the businesses are putting more cash in the lowest payed employees pockets as well. All that money in the system is desperately trying to be spent.
I know of no businesses that would not hire right now, no business that is fully staffed. And I get calls regularly asking if I know of anyone that would be looking for a job. More businesses are dropping drug testing. More businesses are accommodating working schedules that they would not have considered in the past.

[temporal1]

I expect this next 12-36 months we will experience a economic boom, the likes of which haven’t been seen in a generation.

RZehr,
Present expectations?

Same as before. Things are red hot right now. I was at a medium sized Ford dealership, and they only had two new vehicles on their lot available to sell. One small Ranger pickup, and one small car. And then they had a dozen or so used vehicles. Same story with other kinds of businesses. Things are so hot now that they can't keep product in stock to sell. If the economy boils over so much that businesses simply can't get product, then they may have to lay people off. No point in keeping a dozen car salesmen on payroll if you have nothing to sell. Same with factories. If we can't get necessary components, you can't keep the manufacturing process going, and if you can't manufacture, there is little sense in paying their employees to stand there doing nothing. And yet companies dare not lay off employees either right now, because good employees are scarce as hens teeth.

I think the nations economy is going to continue at break neck pace, but the supply lines are the weak link. From manufacturing to shipping, everything is to the melting point, they just cannot keep up.

The reasons I don't see it stopping anytime real soon, is because (1) I don't see any more labor becoming available soon, (2) the supply chain cannot increase capacity with any sort of speed, and (3) factories cannot be expanded or built quickly.

All the while the government keeps pumping more cash into the consumers pockets** even though products can't be built fast enough to be bought, and employees can't be hired fast enough for the cash to be spent on services.
Wages are continuing to move upward at the lowest pay scale. Yesterday, I went through the McDonalds drive through and they were advertising jobs at $17.50 - $18.50 plus a $1,500 sign up bonus. So it's not just the government pumping money into consumers pockets, the businesses are putting more cash in the lowest payed employees pockets as well. All that money in the system is desperately trying to be spent.
I know of no businesses that would not hire right now, no business that is fully staffed. And I get calls regularly asking if I know of anyone that would be looking for a job. More businesses are dropping drug testing. More businesses are accommodating working schedules that they would not have considered in the past.

Thank you. i appreciate this.
i’m not seeing the economy quite like you, i hope your view is more accurate.
i’m wary of so much gov dependency, of being overly gov-centric - pretending to be capitalist.

**gov is pumping out money EVERYWHERE, from individuals to big business, this seems to be key as to why there are more jobs than job applicants. and, i think, rising prices are at least partly due to everyone knows there’s more (artificial) money circulating.

1. gov has and is pumping HUGE sums into the economy,
2. prices are significantly rising,
3. so. when stimulus $ ends, many will be hurting, attempting to exist without gov “extra” - AND higher COL.

i’m uneasy. i sense a gigantic shell game.

shell game
/ˈSHel ˌɡām/
noun NORTH AMERICAN
a game involving sleight of hand, in which three inverted cups or nutshells are moved about, and contestants must spot which is the one with a pea or other object underneath.

a deceptive and evasive action or ploy, especially a political one.

plural noun: shell games
"officials played a shell game by loading prisoners onto buses during population counts at the jail"

appleman probably has some (less popular) thoughts on it.
he was warning about unsustainable gov spending BEFORE 2020.

[GaryK]

Since the Jan 6 capitol riot was referenced here, I decided to post this here.

EXCLUSIVE FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated-sources

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclus ... 021-08-20/