Poll: Auto Accident Fatalities and Injuries

[Ernie]

America has a massive influx of third world people who bring their culture (such as ignoring traffic laws) with them.

But that is not what the stats say...

[Ken]

As America becomes more of a Central American population, we are getting more of a Central American auto fatality rate.

Except that this is not actually the case... Here are the numbers for those who care to know them...
https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Pu ... ion/813493#

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankin ... h-America/

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankin ... h-America/

In Central America a lot of people can’t afford cars. If they migrate to the U.S., they can. The culture in the third world is quite different than traditional expectations in first world countries.

America has a massive influx of third world people who bring their culture (such as ignoring traffic laws) with them.

Everything is the fault of immigrants with you, isn't it?

[ohio jones]

Pedestrians basically do not have any rights there. You have to cross streets quickly, and if you stop to allow someone to cross in front of you, they are so disbelieving that they won't go.

Contrast with New Zealand, where (aside from the city centers) drivers will stop if you look like you might be remotely entertaining the possibility of crossing the street. I ended up crossing at least once when I didn't really intend to, just so they hadn't stopped for no reason.

[Ken]

Pedestrians basically do not have any rights there. You have to cross streets quickly, and if you stop to allow someone to cross in front of you, they are so disbelieving that they won't go.

Contrast with New Zealand, where (aside from the city centers) drivers will stop if you look like you might be remotely entertaining the possibility of crossing the street. I ended up crossing at least once when I didn't really intend to, just so they hadn't stopped for no reason.

It isn't just about driver behavior. Countries with low pedestrian fatalities also design and build their streets and highways to be safe for all users, not just car drivers. Something we tend not to do here, or if we do it is just an tacked-on afterthought.

How the Dutch Delivered a Traffic Safety Revolution: Drivers and pedestrians in the Netherlands faced injury risks similar to those in the U.S. in 1970. Since then, American streets have become far more dangerous. What happened? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... revolution

[temporal1]

Pedestrians basically do not have any rights there. You have to cross streets quickly, and if you stop to allow someone to cross in front of you, they are so disbelieving that they won't go.

Contrast with New Zealand, where (aside from the city centers) drivers will stop if you look like you might be remotely entertaining the possibility of crossing the street. I ended up crossing at least once when I didn't really intend to, just so they hadn't stopped for no reason.

Early 70’s, Santa Barbara, CA, was much like this. We moved from Vermont, and were stunned to find, if anyone stepped off the curb from any spot, rows of cars would stop to allow pedestrians to cross. Jay walking was strictly illegal, but, drivers were harshly expected to allow for pedestrians. i’m not sure if this was all of California.

Contrast with my cousin, leaving a bus after work in Urbana, IL, a couple of years ago, hit+killed in the street. The driver wasn’t ticketed, detained, or inconvenienced. She drove her car from the scene and returned to life as if it never happened. There may have been more to it if my cousin had been a dog. i’m not sure.

[ohio jones]

It was a dark and stormy night in 1930 when my grandmother's aunt left the cathedral and started walking toward her home about 5 blocks away. She shared the duplex with her youngest brother, who taught auto mechanics at the vocational school. Cutting edge tech in those days. Now in her upper 70s, she had survived three husbands and a pilgrimage to Europe that included an audience with the pope. But this night, as she stepped off the curb, she was exterminated by one of those newfangled automobiles her brother was forever tinkering with. The first such fatality in town, or so the story goes. But certainly not the last, as another one took place just two weeks ago.

[Josh]

Everything is the fault of immigrants with you, isn't it?

When someone asks “Why is X changing,” it is worthwhile to look at significant demographic changes.

I don’t have an ideology that immigration is necessarily good nor bad. But this means I don’t need to defend it and can look impartially at the data. And the data shows that traffic and accidents in America are moving in a third-world direction. The most likely explanation is due to mass importation of the third-world.

[Josh]

America has a massive influx of third world people who bring their culture (such as ignoring traffic laws) with them.

But that is not what the stats say...

The stats are that traffic fatalities are much worse in the third world per miles travelled. However, far fewer people have cars or travel long distances, because of the cost.

Third-world people who move to America can afford cars and gasoline and then start driving as much as everyone else.

Lived experience in third world places (I don’t know if you’ve been to any, I assumed you had) is far less regard for life and for traffic safety than in Western countries. Fixing this requires a Christianised or otherwise religious culture that imbues a deep value for life and for law and order across all peoples, and it is not possible in a place where government is notoriously corrupt. For an example of a place that has managed to make this transition, see Rwanda.

[barnhart]

Off the top of my head I knew three people killed in traffic, two cousins and a childhood playmate.

[Neto]

Pedestrians basically do not have any rights there. You have to cross streets quickly, and if you stop to allow someone to cross in front of you, they are so disbelieving that they won't go.

Contrast with New Zealand, where (aside from the city centers) drivers will stop if you look like you might be remotely entertaining the possibility of crossing the street. I ended up crossing at least once when I didn't really intend to, just so they hadn't stopped for no reason.

It isn't just about driver behavior. Countries with low pedestrian fatalities also design and build their streets and highways to be safe for all users, not just car drivers. Something we tend not to do here, or if we do it is just an tacked-on afterthought.

How the Dutch Delivered a Traffic Safety Revolution: Drivers and pedestrians in the Netherlands faced injury risks similar to those in the U.S. in 1970. Since then, American streets have become far more dangerous. What happened? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... revolution

When the planned capital city of Brasilia was constructed (laid out in the shape of a jet airplane), lighted pedestrian tunnels were built under the divided highway that went from the nose of the airplane to the tail. But it wasn't safe to walk through there, so people still ran the gambit to cross the super highway above ground, on foot. Squatters bricked up the entrances to the tunnels, and lived there. I doubt if anything has been done about that situation. (At the time we lived there, the city was only 25 years old, and it was already like that then.) So they had carefully planned for pedestrian safety, and followed through at great expense, but had not considered the problem of crime.