Poll: Auto Accident Fatalities and Injuries

[temporal1]

Turning back to the original topic--

5. What could be done on a national level to drastically reduce the number of auto accident fatalities in 2024 and subsequent years, until new policies or a new culture take effect?

Support the expansion of public transit, especially intercity high speed rail.

I think this is one good national-level response. Free mass transit, with frequent and dependable rides, would also help. The intercity highways would be much less crowded and dangerous with most freight moved from trucks to railroads.

Experiments with mass transit such as Portland’s Fareless Square have not been encouraging. Without strict policing, it tends to become a vehicle for drug use and drug dealing, and then normal people avoid it and stay in their cars.

2023 Seattle / UW assessment finds fentanyl and methamphetamine smoke linger on public transit vehicles
https://www.washington.edu/news/2023/09 ... -vehicles/

https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle ... ess-crisis

i really-really like my King County WA SR ORCA pass. lovely busses, convenient, efficient. light rail is coming.
i don’t use it to go into Seattle. too much crime+drugs. i saw this report and hesitate for any use, plus, don’t want my 16 yr old grdaughter on it.

poor policies: “why we can’t have nice things.”

[Josh]

I'd like to be able to use public transportation, but without these "features":

- Somebody openly smoking crack, fentanyl, weed, or whatever it is people are into these days

- People screaming and yelling at each other

- People making threatening moves and grunting "What you looking at" for some perceived slight of, well, someone accidentally looking at them.

- Loudly playing music on a cell phone without using earphones.

- Unlicenced people selling candy, candy bars, whatever at random spots on the subway, often young children pressed into service doing this. If I want candy I'll go to a vending machine or to a properly licenced food seller.

- Riders brazenly jumping turnstiles or otherwise refusing to pay their fare, with no consequences.

Until these problems are fixed, I don't plan to use public transportation. I don't see any sense in me being a farepaying, law-abiding passenger and then having to tolerate hordes of other rides who aren't.

[Ken]

I'd like to be able to use public transportation, but without these "features":

- Somebody openly smoking crack, fentanyl, weed, or whatever it is people are into these days

- People screaming and yelling at each other

- People making threatening moves and grunting "What you looking at" for some perceived slight of, well, someone accidentally looking at them.

- Loudly playing music on a cell phone without using earphones.

- Unlicenced people selling candy, candy bars, whatever at random spots on the subway, often young children pressed into service doing this. If I want candy I'll go to a vending machine or to a properly licenced food seller.

- Riders brazenly jumping turnstiles or otherwise refusing to pay their fare, with no consequences.

Until these problems are fixed, I don't plan to use public transportation. I don't see any sense in me being a farepaying, law-abiding passenger and then having to tolerate hordes of other rides who aren't.

But curiously....

• You drive on the public roads with people who are high on fentanyl, weed, and alcohol
• You drive on the public roads with people who are crazy and prone to road rage, many of whom are armed
• You drive on the public roads where there are beggars, sometimes with children panhandling at intersections and in parking lots
• You drive on the public roads where there are lots of unlicensed drivers menacing us all
• You drive on the public roads where there are lots of vehicles with expired registrations and obscured license plates to evade toll readers who seem to face no consequences
• And statistically, you put your life at greater risk by driving than you do using public transportation.

Why doesn't that stop you from using the public roads?

In any event, I ride the bus in my community from time to time and I experience none of those things. The buses are clean and new, they have convenient bike parking racks inside the bus, and I have never experienced the slightest hassle. So on very cold and rainy days it will get me at least half way home (although not the entire way since I don't live on a bus route).

[Josh]

• You drive on the public roads with people who are high on fentanyl, weed, and alcohol
• You drive on the public roads with people who are crazy and prone to road rage, many of whom are armed

They aren’t in the car with me. So I don’t have to deal with them. A 2,000 lb box is a good fortress that seems to keep the worst violence at bay.

[*]You drive on the public roads where there are beggars, sometimes with children panhandling at intersections and in parking lots

Yes and that’s not good. As a rule I try to avoid such places. But again, I don’t have them inside the car with me.

[*]You drive on the public roads where there are lots of unlicensed drivers menacing us all
[*]You drive on the public roads where there are lots of vehicles with expired registrations and obscured license plates to evade toll readers who seem to face no consequences

Where I live, people get pulled over for expired plates. (Myself included - oops.) There are consequences. If someone doesn’t have a good explanation, their car will be impounded.

Cars that try to evade tolls on the Ohio turnpike get pulled over and ticketed or impounded.

[*]And statistically, you put your life at greater risk by driving than you do using public transportation.[/list]

Why doesn't that stop you from using the public roads?

In any event, I ride the bus in my community from time to time and I experience none of those things. The buses are clean and new, they have convenient bike parking racks inside the bus, and I have never experienced the slightest hassle. So on very cold and rainy days it will get me at least half way home (although not the entire way since I don't live on a bus route).

Yes, using public transportation in a wealthy area is a nice experience. I used to use it in Canada, Australia, and Europe a lot.

[Ken]

• You drive on the public roads with people who are high on fentanyl, weed, and alcohol
• You drive on the public roads with people who are crazy and prone to road rage, many of whom are armed

They aren’t in the car with me. So I don’t have to deal with them. A 2,000 lb box is a good fortress that seems to keep the worst violence at bay.

[*]You drive on the public roads where there are beggars, sometimes with children panhandling at intersections and in parking lots

Yes and that’s not good. As a rule I try to avoid such places. But again, I don’t have them inside the car with me.

[*]You drive on the public roads where there are lots of unlicensed drivers menacing us all
[*]You drive on the public roads where there are lots of vehicles with expired registrations and obscured license plates to evade toll readers who seem to face no consequences

Where I live, people get pulled over for expired plates. (Myself included - oops.) There are consequences. If someone doesn’t have a good explanation, their car will be impounded.

Cars that try to evade tolls on the Ohio turnpike get pulled over and ticketed or impounded.

[*]And statistically, you put your life at greater risk by driving than you do using public transportation.[/list]

Why doesn't that stop you from using the public roads?

In any event, I ride the bus in my community from time to time and I experience none of those things. The buses are clean and new, they have convenient bike parking racks inside the bus, and I have never experienced the slightest hassle. So on very cold and rainy days it will get me at least half way home (although not the entire way since I don't live on a bus route).

Yes, using public transportation in a wealthy area is a nice experience. I used to use it in Canada, Australia, and Europe a lot.

Vancouver isn't a particularly wealthy area. But the transit system is better managed and enforced than many in other cities. And the US is richer than most European countries so it more a question of priorities than wealth. Mostly it sounds like you just don't like being around poor people. Which is your right. It is an attitude shared by many other Americans so you are in good company.

But don't deceive yourself that you are safer driving than using public transportation. The opposite is actually true. Most people's perceptions of risk do not match reality.

[Josh]

Vancouver isn't a particularly wealthy area. But the transit system is better managed and enforced than many in other cities. And the US is richer than most European countries so it more a question of priorities than wealth. Mostly it sounds like you just don't like being around poor people. Which is your right. It is an attitude shared by many other Americans so you are in good company.

But don't deceive yourself that you are safer driving than using public transportation. The opposite is actually true. Most people's perceptions of risk do not match reality.

When did I say anything about poor people?

Does being poor mean it’s OK to shoot up drugs in public, scream and yell, threaten people, or send your 12 year old to beg or sell candy bars?

Are poor people unable to put in earbuds despite having cellphones that cost $1,000+?

Or perhaps tolerating such things is what creates poverty in the first place…

[Ken]

Vancouver isn't a particularly wealthy area. But the transit system is better managed and enforced than many in other cities. And the US is richer than most European countries so it more a question of priorities than wealth. Mostly it sounds like you just don't like being around poor people. Which is your right. It is an attitude shared by many other Americans so you are in good company.

But don't deceive yourself that you are safer driving than using public transportation. The opposite is actually true. Most people's perceptions of risk do not match reality.

When did I say anything about poor people?

Does being poor mean it’s OK to shoot up drugs in public, scream and yell, threaten people, or send your 12 year old to beg or sell candy bars?

Are poor people unable to put in earbuds despite having cellphones that cost $1,000+?

Or perhaps tolerating such things is what creates poverty in the first place…

You said you only like using public transit in wealthy areas.

I will be the first to admit that we have a problem with poverty and inequality in this country. More so than in most of the rest of the developed world. That is the real root cause to much of what you are commenting on. We also do a poor job of dealing with people on the fringes of society, whether it is homeless, substance abusers, mentally ill, and so forth.

[Ernie]

The Maryland governor and other officials continue to offer prayers for the families of the 6 men who died when the Francis Scott Key Bridge went down. Meanwhile people die daily and receive permanent injuries every day in Maryland, but there are no prayers from the governor for those people that I am aware of.

Just calling attention to a daily catastrophe that rarely makes the news or the prayer lists...

[Soloist]

The Maryland governor and other officials continue to offer prayers for the families of the 6 men who died when the Francis Scott Key Bridge went down. Meanwhile people die daily and receive permanent injuries every day in Maryland, but there are no prayers from the governor for those people that I am aware of.

Just calling attention to a daily catastrophe that rarely makes the news or the prayer lists...

It’s no different then how much attention Ukraine and Gaza get compared to the other battle grounds around the world. Politics.

[Josh]

San Francisco is a wealthy area but I stay as far away from bart / muni etc as I can.

I like taking public transportation in lawful areas. I avoid it in lawless areas.

Wealthy areas often (but not always) are better about enforcing the law, but some of the wealthiest areas, like SF and LA, are descending into complete lawlessness.

If you want people like me to stop driving and start using public transportation, then you need to start caring a lot more about our safety including wanting to be free of smoke and drugs on public transportation, not just barking "well the statistics say you're safer". I'm not going to get on a public bus with my children and subject them to an hour of someone smoking drugs, yelling obscenities, and threatening violence.