Ken wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 10:59 pm
Practically every other single bridge in the history of the US was made by the government. With very few exceptions such as the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit.
Why do you assume this one specifically will be a disaster or fiasco?
I think the most recent big bridge reconstruction was the I-35 bridge in Minneapolis after the original collapsed. The replacement bridge came was finished in about 10 months (3 months ahead of schedule) and on budget in 2009.
The new Tappan Zee bridge opened about six months late and is currently the subject of a $900,000,000 claim from the general contractor.
In the Baltimore area, check out the Broening Hwy bridge replacement over Colgate Creek to get an idea why some of us are skeptical of an on-time and on-budge bridge replacement. It was originally supposed to be completed by the end of 2020, but by March of 2021 it was already 26% over budget and work hadn't even actually started yet. Now in 2024 it's almost half done - more than three years after it was supposed to be completely done.
Sure. The biggest reason for cost increases is delays which adds inflation to the costs. And those are most often due to politics and decision-making in a democracy. One administration changes what another started. Opponents of a project leverage the many democratic decision-points to impose delay and review. Dictatorships would be more efficient. Stuff gets done really efficiently in places like China and Singapore.
But that isn't about the ability Americans to get things done, or get them done correctly. It is about the messiness of living in a democracy.
In this case it seems that there is political unanimity to get this thing done fast. The government can declare an "emergency" and waive all the normal democratic review process. And that is what I expect will happen.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Ken wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 10:59 pm
Practically every other single bridge in the history of the US was made by the government. With very few exceptions such as the Ambassador Bridge in Detroit.
Why do you assume this one specifically will be a disaster or fiasco?
I think the most recent big bridge reconstruction was the I-35 bridge in Minneapolis after the original collapsed. The replacement bridge came was finished in about 10 months (3 months ahead of schedule) and on budget in 2009.
The new Tappan Zee bridge opened about six months late and is currently the subject of a $900,000,000 claim from the general contractor.
In the Baltimore area, check out the Broening Hwy bridge replacement over Colgate Creek to get an idea why some of us are skeptical of an on-time and on-budge bridge replacement. It was originally supposed to be completed by the end of 2020, but by March of 2021 it was already 26% over budget and work hadn't even actually started yet. Now in 2024 it's almost half done - more than three years after it was supposed to be completely done.
Sure. The biggest reason for cost increases is delays which adds inflation to the costs. And those are most often due to politics and decision-making in a democracy. One administration changes what another started. Opponents of a project leverage the many democratic decision-points to impose delay and review. Dictatorships would be more efficient. Stuff gets done really efficiently in places like China and Singapore.
But that isn't about the ability Americans to get things done, or get them done correctly. It is about the messiness of living in a democracy.
That wasn't the biggest problem with the Broening Hwy Colgate Creek project cost overrun. That had more to do with rushing the project out to bid so fast that the known project details weren't all included in the bid package.
California has had one party rule for a while, yet infrastructure projects there seem to be very slow and take forever. One of the most notorious examples is the abortive “High Speed Rail” which is billions over budget, years late, and so far only has firm plans to run between Bakersfield and Merced, which are two places in California many people are interested in leaving but not so many interested in travelling towards.
Josh wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 9:57 am
California has had one party rule for a while, yet infrastructure projects there seem to be very slow and take forever. One of the most notorious examples is the abortive “High Speed Rail” which is billions over budget, years late, and so far only has firm plans to run between Bakersfield and Merced, which are two places in California many people are interested in leaving but not so many interested in travelling towards.
You think that just because one party is in the majority that there are no politics?
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Josh wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 9:57 am
California has had one party rule for a while, yet infrastructure projects there seem to be very slow and take forever. One of the most notorious examples is the abortive “High Speed Rail” which is billions over budget, years late, and so far only has firm plans to run between Bakersfield and Merced, which are two places in California many people are interested in leaving but not so many interested in travelling towards.
You think that just because one party is in the majority that there are no politics?
Well, Ken, what do you think is blocking effective high speed rail in California? This is one time you can’t blame right wing Republicans
Josh wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 9:57 am
California has had one party rule for a while, yet infrastructure projects there seem to be very slow and take forever. One of the most notorious examples is the abortive “High Speed Rail” which is billions over budget, years late, and so far only has firm plans to run between Bakersfield and Merced, which are two places in California many people are interested in leaving but not so many interested in travelling towards.
You think that just because one party is in the majority that there are no politics?
Well, Ken, what do you think is blocking effective high speed rail in California? This is one time you can’t blame right wing Republicans
I haven't been paying much attention. But from what I have read, there has been endless political infighting over the route and powerful politicians have caused a lot of delays trying to re-route it through their communities which has added lots of cost and delay.
There are also California's completely dysfunctional environmental review laws that add years of review and costs to everything. Politicians seem loath to reform them because it gives them leverage to block projects that they don't like.
But California can build infrastructure. They are building more transit lines and subways than anyplace else in the country by far. The main problem with California is that they don't allow enough housing to be built.
But none of this applies to Baltimore. No one is objecting to clearing the harbor and rebuilding the bridge. So I expect the state and federal DOTs to declare emergency actions to sweep aside all the environmental and economic review that usually delays these sorts of projects. Possibly even the competitive bidding process as well. I'm guessing they are just going to sole source a design-build contract with one of the top civil engineering construction companies that builds these sorts of huge projects and give them all kinds of economic incentives to get things done fast.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
“close enough for government work” and “good enough for government work”
sufficiently close; done just well enough. (Alludes to the notion that work for the government is not done with care or pride.) I didn't do the best job of mending your shirt, but it's close enough for government work. The Free Dictionary
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35 Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
should have the main (Federal) channel open to 35 feet by the end of the week, maybe 2 weeks, depending how long it takes to remove the Dali. Ultimately, that channel is 50 feet, and will be again. Do not have a time frame on that.
All of the plans we are seeing are for a cable stayed bridge. 5 years is the best estimate I have heard. The name of the bridge will continue to be a controversy. What it is called likely will depend on who is elected president.
BTW it took the city 7 years to rebuild a four lane bridge on a state highway over a medium sized stream called Herring Run. Baltimore City government has been totally dysfunctional for years. They did get a "guaranteed basic income" program going in record time.
I am so glad this bridge is not in the city, so the city government has nothing to do with it.
