Pennsylvania Leads the Way in Promoting Agriculture.

[Ken]

We regularly hold weddings at our church there (and presumably all the other plain people do, too).

What I objected to was creating playgrounds for rich people to host expensive weddings, which would (obviously) be serving out-of-towners. That kind of thing hollows out and destroys a community.

So it wasn't the closing of the New Holland plant that hollowed out and destroyed Belleville. It was this place? https://brookmerewine.com/

Replacing strong manufacturing jobs for a blue-collar middle class with low wage service jobs being waiters to rich people is not what I consider “progress”.

The factory jobs are long gone. The factory closed 15 years ago. The question for the community is whether they will support young people doing creative and innovative things to make a living. And likewise, whether newcomers (immigrants or otherwise) will be welcomed to do the same. Or whether young people will have to leave the area to do anything other than run a commercial dairy farm like their grandfathers did. I guess if the community thinks like you then it will be the latter. The fact that the population of the county is shrinking and down to where it was around 1970 suggests it is the latter.

I'm not trying to pick on Belleville. I spent a lot of time there growing up. Pretty much every summer. And I have very fond memories of life there. We also swing back through every few years to see family and for reunions. Last summer it was just me and my youngest daughter and I got to see the place through her eyes. Which were different. Tattered Trump flags still flying all over the place. Boarded up storefronts in Belleville and the surrounding small towns. Essentially nothing a 17 year old girl would find interesting in the slightest. Not even a place to get coffee. We drove over to State College just to have something to do and to see the campus (didn't make her top 10 list). I guess that is the way that the older folks like it. And I'm in that age category now too. But seeing the place through my daughters eyes brought home to me why young people don't stick around unless they are inheriting a farm. There was a specific farm there that I once wanted to buy when I was young in my 20s. Looking back I'm glad I didn't, even if I had the money (which I didn't).

I want to see rural America turn things around. I don't think it is healthy for all the prosperity to be concentrated in the cities and suburban areas. But it is going to take change and innovation to make that happen. And also new blood which means immigrants. All things that the majority of people who live in such places seem to oppose. It is no different out here in the Pacific Northwest. The small towns that are creative and open to new ideas and change are the ones that are thriving. The ones that aren't. Not so much. And just like the subject of this thread, which is promoting young people to try agriculture. That means being open to young people trying new things on the land as well. Such as wineries, artisanal cheesemaking, farm-to-market organic vegetables, and different ethnic foods for immigrant markets like meat goats, chiles, and so forth. And yes, even wedding venues.

[Josh]

“The factory jobs are gone.”

Are you telling me that tractors are obsolete and not made anymore?

I don’t think being a servant for rich people drinking wine is a good economic base.

[Ken]

“The factory jobs are gone.”

Are you telling me that tractors are obsolete and not made anymore?

I don’t think being a servant for rich people drinking wine is a good economic base.

No, but increasingly they come from places like India. Mahindara has recently passed John Deere and is now the largest tractor manufacturer in the world.

We don't live in the 1950s anymore. Why would anyone in 2024 put a tractor factory in Belleville with its aging and shrinking workforce? Machine assembly is an increasingly high-tech field. Not just the machines themselves, but the equipment used to manufacture them. Where is the workforce going to come from with the computer engineering and mechanical engineering experience?

As for doubling-down on traditional farming? I don't think shipping raw milk out of the valley to the nearest processor an hour or more away is going to bring any new prosperity. They will never really be competitive against massive dairies in the west. The next generation is going to have to be creative and find new ways to create value-added products and bring in new money.

And actually, the best people to do that are immigrants. In this country, immigrants start small businesses at double or triple the rates of native-born Americans. New blood has always been what has revitalized America. And that is is no different today than it was centuries ago when the Anabaptist immigrants arrived in the area from the Palatinate.

[ken_sylvania]

“The factory jobs are gone.”

Are you telling me that tractors are obsolete and not made anymore?

I don’t think being a servant for rich people drinking wine is a good economic base.

No, but increasingly they come from places like India. Mahindara has recently passed John Deere and is now the largest tractor manufacturer in the world.

We don't live in the 1950s anymore. Why would anyone in 2024 put a tractor factory in Belleville with its aging and shrinking workforce? Machine assembly is an increasingly high-tech field. Not just the machines themselves, but the equipment used to manufacture them. Where is the workforce going to come from with the computer engineering and mechanical engineering experience?

As for doubling-down on traditional farming? I don't think shipping raw milk out of the valley to the nearest processor an hour or more away is going to bring any new prosperity. They will never really be competitive against massive dairies in the west. The next generation is going to have to be creative and find new ways to create value-added products and bring in new money.

And actually, the best people to do that are immigrants. In this country, immigrants start small businesses at double or triple the rates of native-born Americans. New blood has always been what has revitalized America. And that is is no different today than it was centuries ago when the Anabaptist immigrants arrived in the area from the Palatinate.

Yep, manufacturing jobs are all gone - all that's left is minimum wage jobs in nursing homes. That's why, when we look at Google Maps we see the following placemarkers:
Whitehall General Store
The Copper Extractor
Sparrow Eye Bakery
Peachey Enterprises
Boring Transport Inc
MKB Company - Filtrexx
Kish Valley Dairy Stores
Peights's Welding Shop
Belleville Livestock Market
Peight's Store
Sharp Shopper
PaulB hardware
Eagle Poured Walls

[Ken]

“The factory jobs are gone.”

Are you telling me that tractors are obsolete and not made anymore?

I don’t think being a servant for rich people drinking wine is a good economic base.

No, but increasingly they come from places like India. Mahindara has recently passed John Deere and is now the largest tractor manufacturer in the world.

We don't live in the 1950s anymore. Why would anyone in 2024 put a tractor factory in Belleville with its aging and shrinking workforce? Machine assembly is an increasingly high-tech field. Not just the machines themselves, but the equipment used to manufacture them. Where is the workforce going to come from with the computer engineering and mechanical engineering experience?

As for doubling-down on traditional farming? I don't think shipping raw milk out of the valley to the nearest processor an hour or more away is going to bring any new prosperity. They will never really be competitive against massive dairies in the west. The next generation is going to have to be creative and find new ways to create value-added products and bring in new money.

And actually, the best people to do that are immigrants. In this country, immigrants start small businesses at double or triple the rates of native-born Americans. New blood has always been what has revitalized America. And that is is no different today than it was centuries ago when the Anabaptist immigrants arrived in the area from the Palatinate.

Yep, manufacturing jobs are all gone - all that's left is minimum wage jobs in nursing homes. That's why, when we look at Google Maps we see the following placemarkers:
Whitehall General Store
The Copper Extractor
Sparrow Eye Bakery
Peachey Enterprises
Boring Transport Inc
MKB Company - Filtrexx
Kish Valley Dairy Stores
Peights's Welding Shop
Belleville Livestock Market
Peight's Store
Sharp Shopper
PaulB hardware
Eagle Poured Walls

The Whitehall General Store? That is this place: https://maps.app.goo.gl/GVXLETxYZcbJ7W9u9 How many high-paid manufacturing jobs do you think they provide? I've been going there since I was a child. They do sell canning supplies and Lebanon Bologna.

The copper extractor? That is this guy's home business: https://maps.app.goo.gl/v3vv4Gxq9rtHyBDu9

The Sparrow Eye Bakery is the Amish farm kitchen at the end of this lane: https://maps.app.goo.gl/t3oSpN2gnamK2XaZ9

Peachey Enterprises is this farm: https://maps.app.goo.gl/yzSMxh2eGqYQUz8V6

Boring Transport is this trucking company: https://maps.app.goo.gl/pYvpQZQBF2uZkh9r6

MKB Company sells building supplies: https://maps.app.goo.gl/nYLd5bgHp6FYvG2GA

Kish Valley Dairy Stores is this: https://maps.app.goo.gl/5qTTSs1wu3Hxqpdx5

Peight's Welding Shop is this place: https://maps.app.goo.gl/PoydWJx5H8W7qcCf9

Bellville Livestock Market is what they call the "Sale Barn" and is more or less the Wednesday flea market except that you can buy cartons of eggs and pies at auction: https://maps.app.goo.gl/sYjXyZmSP2GFGBzaA

Peight's Store is this Menno run general store. There is usually a couple of young Menno girls working the cash register and deli counter but that's all the jobs they provide: https://maps.app.goo.gl/AGEnccrcXM6UtV9L6

Paul B Hardware is this local hardware and farm supply: https://maps.app.goo.gl/TiW5jarBozU9tzd17

And Eagle Poured Walls is this concrete contractor: https://maps.app.goo.gl/E92WhuXHDzdx68ro6

I don't see a single manufacturing job in your entire list. At best a few retail clerk jobs and a few construction and trucking jobs. Which one of the above businesses is going to provide good career opportunities for an enterprising young 18 year old? You know, a job that you can support a family on and build a future?

[ohio jones]

As long as he doesn't try to turn that tire shop into a wedding venue, right?

We regularly hold weddings at our church there (and presumably all the other plain people do, too).

What I objected to was creating playgrounds for rich people to host expensive weddings, which would (obviously) be serving out-of-towners. That kind of thing hollows out and destroys a community.

So it wasn't the closing of the New Holland plant that hollowed out and destroyed Belleville. It was this place? https://brookmerewine.com/

RNOC has a wedding venue on the edge of town. The church that meets there is the second largest in our network. There are three others within 10 miles that, combined, nearly equal that size. If Belleville is "hollowed out and destroyed" why do 900+ people go to church there? That's actually up 15% from the 2007 data that I have at hand. Not counting the Amish, Beachy, and other Anabaptist population.

[RZehr]

I know that young people don’t want boring jobs, but the Transport company has now hiring a sign out.

You seem to be saying that the only other option for Belleville is for emigrants to come in and start wineries.
Seems like a narrow minded approach.

[Ken]

I know that young people don’t want boring jobs, but the Transport company has now hiring a sign out.

You seem to be saying that the only other option for Belleville is for emigrants to come in and start wineries.
Seems like a narrow minded approach.

I am saying nothing of the sort.

What I am saying is that if the community wants to reverse the demographic decline that it is currently in, they will need to welcome more innovation and change. Which is exactly what they don't want to do. At least not a majority. Wineries were just one example of a family from the outside that bought a farm and did their own thing. And now they provide jobs and bring dollars to the area. And to judge from the conversations I heard about it from my relatives when they opened, they were both scandalized and motivated to make sure it didn't happen again. But that is the very sort of creative thing that young people are going to have to do if they want to stay in the area and be productive. Not wineries per se. But be creative about starting new businesses. Because dairy farming and that list of businesses that Ken Sylvania provided us with is not going to get the job done.

And no, I don't think that Belleville is hollowed out and destroyed. I was teasing Josh about his assertion that wedding venues will hollow out and destroy a community. His words, not mine.

[RZehr]

I know that young people don’t want boring jobs, but the Transport company has now hiring a sign out.

You seem to be saying that the only other option for Belleville is for emigrants to come in and start wineries.
Seems like a narrow minded approach.

I am saying nothing of the sort.

What I am saying is that if the community wants to reverse the demographic decline that it is currently in, they will need to welcome more innovation and change. Which is exactly what they don't want to do. At least not a majority. Wineries were just one example of a family from the outside that bought a farm and did their own thing. And now they provide jobs and bring dollars to the area. And to judge from the conversations I heard about it from my relatives when they opened, they were both scandalized and motivated to make sure it didn't happen again. But that is the very sort of creative thing that young people are going to have to do if they want to stay in the area and be productive. Not wineries per se. But be creative about starting new businesses. Because dairy farming and that list of businesses that Ken Sylvania provided us with is not going to get the job done.

And no, I don't think that Belleville is hollowed out and destroyed. I was teasing Josh about his assertion that wedding venues will hollow out and destroy a community. His words, not mine.

Okay. Then on one hand you are extolling the value of immigrants starting small businesses, but seem to dismiss the small business list the kensylvania gave. Are native owned small businesses inferior or insufficient? I don’t know what land prices and doing there, but if they are going up, that isn’t generally an indicator of a dying community.

[Ken]

I know that young people don’t want boring jobs, but the Transport company has now hiring a sign out.

You seem to be saying that the only other option for Belleville is for emigrants to come in and start wineries.
Seems like a narrow minded approach.

I am saying nothing of the sort.

What I am saying is that if the community wants to reverse the demographic decline that it is currently in, they will need to welcome more innovation and change. Which is exactly what they don't want to do. At least not a majority. Wineries were just one example of a family from the outside that bought a farm and did their own thing. And now they provide jobs and bring dollars to the area. And to judge from the conversations I heard about it from my relatives when they opened, they were both scandalized and motivated to make sure it didn't happen again. But that is the very sort of creative thing that young people are going to have to do if they want to stay in the area and be productive. Not wineries per se. But be creative about starting new businesses. Because dairy farming and that list of businesses that Ken Sylvania provided us with is not going to get the job done.

And no, I don't think that Belleville is hollowed out and destroyed. I was teasing Josh about his assertion that wedding venues will hollow out and destroy a community. His words, not mine.

Okay. Then on one hand you are extolling the value of immigrants starting small businesses, but seem to dismiss the small business list the kensylvania gave. Are native owned small businesses inferior or insufficient? I don’t know what land prices and doing there, but if they are going up, that isn’t generally an indicator of a dying community.

Ken provided a list of businesses that he said provided manufacturing jobs. Not one of which did.

Stepping back from Belleville, which is just a case in point. I do think that a lot of rural America is in economic decline. Not just Pennsylvania, but all across the country. Not for lack of industriousness and hard work, but mostly due to productivity gains that have made so many rural jobs obsolete. How are the small towns east of you in eastern Oregon doing? Most are aging and in decline. Reversing that is going to take a lot of creativity and effort. Towns are not only going to have to make themselves more attractive to their own young people. They will need to attract new blood from outside. And immigrants are some of the best people to do that. Visit any thriving rural community in the US and I expect you will find immigrants. Even the most remote outposts like Dutch Harbor Alaska in the far Aleutians is packed with immigrants seeking opportunity. When I worked up there a decade or two ago I probably heard 10 different languages spoken. They are what made our country great before. And if we want to "Make America Great Again" we will need their help doing that too.

Circling back to the post that started this thread. The efforts of the State of Pennsylvania to promote agriculture to younger generations. I think that is a great thing. But I expect it will largely be limited to the outer peripheries of the larger cities where there is frankly going to be more acceptance and opportunity, as well as markets. I don't see places like Belleville being super welcoming of young people from the outside (immigrants or otherwise) looking to get a start in farming by doing new things.