Gaza's Irrational Hatred

[Ken]

To be sure, and I think all of us here recognize the complexity of the situation and the deep suffering on both sides. Nevertheless, the war could end today if Hamas were to surrender and release the hostages.

No, actually it wouldn't. This particular battle might end but the greater conflict will not end until there is some sort of equitable two-state solution.

Every other option inevitably leads to more conflict.

[temporal1]

To be sure, and I think all of us here recognize the complexity of the situation and the deep suffering on both sides.

Nevertheless, the war could end today if Hamas were to surrender and release the hostages.

i’ve heard it worded, Hamas to end violence, and return hostages.

Diplomacy doesn’t “cure” hate.
The point is to find an acceptable path to sufficiently satisfy opposing parties.
Israel doesn’t believe Hamas would respect 2 states. Evidence is convincing, Terrorists don’t think like most.

Earthly diplomacy isn’t heaven.

Observed on this forum, even with ordained Anabaptist pastors. The human warring nature.

[HondurasKeiser]

To be sure, and I think all of us here recognize the complexity of the situation and the deep suffering on both sides. Nevertheless, the war could end today if Hamas were to surrender and release the hostages.

No, actually it wouldn't. This particular battle might end but the greater conflict will not end until there is some sort of equitable two-state solution.

Every other option inevitably leads to more conflict.

I thought people in this thread were discussing the current humanitarian crisis and the loss of 30,000 since October 7th. This particular crisis would end if the hostages were returned and Hamas surrendered. Whether or not a 2-State solution (one the Palestinians have rejected repeatedly) would solve the long-term conflict is beyond the ken of anyone here, even you, Ken.

[Dan Z]

Why doesn’t Egypt open its gate and allow aid in and civilians out?

I have wondered that many times. That is the most obvious immediate solution - and could be supported and funded by a consortium of Arab and Western countries.

However, my guess is that Egype can't see how to stably absorb an influx of 1 million+ Palestinian refugees, nor do they want to be complicit in Israel's apparent aim at lessening the threat from Gaza by moving out the population and rendering the strip relatively unhabitable.

[Dan Z]

I also pointed out that the only reasons why there are refugees from Gaza in the first place are the actions of Israel

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...and round and round it goes...

[Ken]

To be sure, and I think all of us here recognize the complexity of the situation and the deep suffering on both sides. Nevertheless, the war could end today if Hamas were to surrender and release the hostages.

No, actually it wouldn't. This particular battle might end but the greater conflict will not end until there is some sort of equitable two-state solution.

Every other option inevitably leads to more conflict.

I thought people in this thread were discussing the current humanitarian crisis and the loss of 30,000 since October 7th. This particular crisis would end if the hostages were returned and Hamas surrendered. Whether or not a 2-State solution (one the Palestinians have rejected repeatedly) would solve the long-term conflict is beyond the ken of anyone here, even you, Ken.

Israel has been as equally opposed to a 2-state solution as the Palestinians. One reason why Hamas is ascendant in Gaza is because it has been the policy of Netanyahu and Likud to support Hamas as a means of undermining a 2-state solution.

Once could also say that this particular battle could also end today if Israel just turned it Army around and retreated back to its borders where it was before 10/7.

But neither that nor Hamas surrendering will actually bring this conflict to an end. The only thing that will do that is some sort of equitable 2-state solution. Otherwise we just get another 75 years of conflict. Which is probably the most likely outcome.

[Ken]

Why doesn’t Egypt open its gate and allow aid in and civilians out?

I have wondered that many times. That is the most obvious immediate solution - and could be supported and funded by a consortium of Arab and Western countries.

However, my guess is that Egype can't see how to stably absorb an influx of 1 million+ Palestinian refugees, nor do they want to be complicit in Israel's apparent aim at lessening the threat from Gaza by moving out the population and rendering the strip relatively unhabitable.

No, that is NOT the most obvious and immediate solution.

The most obvious and immediate solution is to end the war that is causing the humanitarian crisis in the first place.

At this point the war is no longer about Israeli security. It is about salvaging the political career of Netanyahu and his ruling coalition and deflecting from their egregious errors that led to the war in the first place.

[HondurasKeiser]

Once could also say that this particular battle could also end today if Israel just turned it Army around and retreated back to its borders where it was before 10/7.

Our semitic expert, Lex might be able to tell us better but it's my understanding that Jews have a hang-up about leaving hostages behind.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Why doesn’t Egypt open its gate and allow aid in and civilians out?

I have wondered that many times. That is the most obvious immediate solution - and could be supported and funded by a consortium of Arab and Western countries.

However, my guess is that Egype can't see how to stably absorb an influx of 1 million+ Palestinian refugees, nor do they want to be complicit in Israel's apparent aim at lessening the threat from Gaza by moving out the population and rendering the strip relatively unhabitable.

2 reasons:
1. It would support the “Ethnic Cleansing” of Palestine, long the objective of the Kahanie/Kach movement.
2. The last country that absorbed that many Palestinian refugees was Jordan in the 70s. If you want the results, simply google “Black September in Jordan.” The bullet riddled front door of my former apartment in Amman will tell you that will not work either.

[Ken]

Once could also say that this particular battle could also end today if Israel just turned it Army around and retreated back to its borders where it was before 10/7.

Our semitic expert, Lex might be able to tell us better but it's my understanding that Jews have a hang-up about leaving hostages behind.

Yes, but the only reason there are any Israeli hostages in the first place is the egregious incompetence of Netanyahu's government. Had they actually been doing their jobs, Hamas would not have gotten 20 ft. into Israel before being gunned down. Instead they had the bulk of their military deployed in the West Bank to prop up their settlement policies. They are the ones who are to blame for the conundrum they are in. And the longer they fight this war the more they are trying to get Israelis to forget that.

Israel isn't going to get the remaining hostages free through military force anyway. That much is obvious. To date they have only manage to free two hostages through force and accidentally kill 3 more. All the remaining hostages that have been freed were freed through diplomacy, not force. And continuing the war isn't likely to free the others either. It is more likely to kill them.