Trans student killed in school

[temporal1]

I listened to the White House Press Briefing yesterday. Although any individual who commits suicide is sad and tragic, this individual got far more acknowledgement than the brutal murder of Laken Riley, by an illegal immigrant.

Thank you for noting this.
i knew only thru headlines, i try hard not to click on (many topics, including biden). Political lobbies prevail.

His use of THE MAJOR bully pulpit is repulsive. Add this to for-profit corporate child mutilation and abortion.
Pure twisted politics on the backs of children.

Prayers for Laken’s family, they must be in even more acute pain following this.
As well as others suffering similar losses.

Catholic man? So he, and others in high office, claim.
Yet authentic Catholics do tremendous work for pro life and traditional families.

Incompetence married to corruption.

[RZehr]

Even if they dress like a school shooter, tactical vests, gloves, helmet, AR-15?

The child deserves to feel safe at school, even if he can't bring is AR-15 with him. If a student does dress up as a school shooter, it means that the student is not feeling safe and that there needs to be some exploration about why they are feeling that way.

Also...are you comparing non-binary and trans kids to school shooters? I'm a bit confused by the comparison.

No, you aren’t a bit confused.
You are pretending to confuse them, in order to virtue signal that you would never confuse or associate the two. And to associate someone with traditional social values, with murder, as a way of discrediting their traditional values as nonsensical and justifiably dismissible.

Sorry for going off on you here Szdfan. I went over the top with this post.

[Szdfan]

The child deserves to feel safe at school, even if he can't bring is AR-15 with him. If a student does dress up as a school shooter, it means that the student is not feeling safe and that there needs to be some exploration about why they are feeling that way.

Also...are you comparing non-binary and trans kids to school shooters? I'm a bit confused by the comparison.

No, you aren’t a bit confused.
You are pretending to confuse them, in order to virtue signal that you would never confuse or associate the two. And to associate someone with traditional social values, with murder, as a way of discrediting their traditional values as nonsensical and justifiably dismissible.

Sorry for going off on you here Szdfan. I went over the top with this post.

I appreciate the apology. I didn't see your original response to before your apology, so I wasn't offended.

I think this is an emotionally difficult situation and considering what a lot of us are feeling, I think it's easy to lash out against people you disagree with. I first found out about Nex's death from a friend and colleague who was upset by this.

However, I also think there are a lot of things we agree on.

• I think we both agree that Nex's suicide is a tragedy that never should have happened.
• I think we both agree that bullying is harmful.
• I think we both agree that all students should feel safe in school, even if we disagree about what "safe" means.

That's a lot to agree about.

I think where we disagree is that I believe that the discriminatory policies of the Oklahoma Board of Education (fed by the current political moral panic) against trans and non-binary students stigmatized them and by stigmatizing these students signaled that it was "acceptable" for other students to bully them. (I don't think this is intentional signaling, but as was noted earlier in this thread, students figure out pretty quickly what types of bullying and harassment they can get away with.) The study cited earlier by Josh demonstrates that one of the root causes of the high suicide rate of transgendered individuals is social hostility and bullying.

That's a lot to disagree about too.

[Ken]

I think where we disagree is that I believe that the discriminatory policies of the Oklahoma Board of Education (fed by the current political moral panic) against trans and non-binary students stigmatized them and by stigmatizing these students signaled that it was "acceptable" for other students to bully them. (I don't think this is intentional signaling, but as was noted earlier in this thread, students figure out pretty quickly what types of bullying and harassment they can get away with.)

It is actually THEIR JOB to understand these things and set the tone for the public organizations that they represent.

Back in the fall of 2016 I was teaching at another school district in WA and was leading an outdoor physics lab at the school tennis courts which bordered an outdoor pathway between buildings. I turned around and found some of my boy students banging on the chain link fencing of the tennis courts chanting "Build the Wall, Build the Wall" as a group of Hispanic girls was walking buy.

I bounced them straight to in-school-suspension for the rest of the day and later found out that one of their parents complained but that the school had backed me up on it.

Children mimic and take the lead from their elders.

[temporal1]

Although this is what I expected to be the cause of death, I am now very sorry to hear that she took her own life.

Her grandmother was her legal guardian, so I wonder what all other trauma she had already experienced in her young life
(due to absent parents, I mean).

Oh, to protect the children from such horrible things!

[Where is the face icon that is crying, as I am now?]

Neto,
One glaring fact overlooked in this tragic case is the chronic high suicide rate in Native American populations.
Suicide is a horrible outcome that is feared, isn’t understood.

i believe you are correct to think about “other trauma” in this child’s life.
you’re also correct to point out (as usual) political activists are QUICK to jump on the tragedy for self-promotion.
White House used+included. Political blocs have no soul. They CLAIM and exploit souls.

“Suicides Among American Indian or Alaska Native Persons —
National Violent Death Reporting System, United States, 2015–2020”
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7137a1.htm

All children+teens have problems, experience trauma on varying levels. Our culture loves to idealize children, pretend they are safe.
They never were. God provided parents+community to nuture, protect, defend from all the many hardships that exist.
Sometimes the caretakers are perpetrators of wrong. God created a mother’s womb to be a safe place.

Imagine a troubled teen in a community where suicide may be known, even common?
Suicide is a cry for the pain to end. That’s not a bad desire. Suicide is the wrong answer. “A permanent solution to a temporary problem.” Children+teens are vulnerable to making poor decisions.

Most of us survive our youthful poor decisions. Not all survive.

[temporal1]

I appreciate the apology.

If sincere, i would appreciate an apology for being accused of wanting the death of this child.

[Neto]

Although this is what I expected to be the cause of death, I am now very sorry to hear that she took her own life.

Her grandmother was her legal guardian, so I wonder what all other trauma she had already experienced in her young life
(due to absent parents, I mean).

Oh, to protect the children from such horrible things!

[Where is the face icon that is crying, as I am now?]

Neto,
One glaring fact overlooked in this tragic case is the chronic high suicide rate in Native American populations.
Suicide is a horrible outcome that is feared, isn’t understood.

i believe you are correct to think about “other trauma” in this child’s life.
you’re also correct to point out (as usual) political activists are QUICK to jump on the tragedy for self-promotion.
White House used+included. Political blocs have no soul. They CLAIM and exploit souls.

“Suicides Among American Indian or Alaska Native Persons —
National Violent Death Reporting System, United States, 2015–2020”
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7137a1.htm

All children+teens have problems, experience trauma on varying levels. Our culture loves to idealize children, pretend they are safe.
They never were. God provided parents+community to nuture, protect, defend from all the many hardships that exist.
Sometimes the caretakers are perpetrators of wrong. God created a mother’s womb to be a safe place.

Imagine a troubled teen in a community where suicide may be known, even common?
Suicide is a cry for the pain to end. That’s not a bad desire. Suicide is the wrong answer. “A permanent solution to a temporary problem.” Children+teens are vulnerable to making poor decisions.

Most of us survive our youthful poor decisions. Not all survive.

I cannot remember now in which thread I mentioned that this young lady was of American Indian descent. And I also do not now recall which tribe it was, but I think it was one of the original "Five Civilized Tribes" that were moved to Indian Territory (from the Eastern States). I mentioned it in the context that she was "home people", not from people who had moved into Oklahoma in recent years. What difference does that make? People who are from Oklahoma going way back will know. (Like I said, "She was home people.")

But while it its true that American Indians are repressed in many areas of the USA, I would not consider that to be the case in Eastern Oklahoma (The former Indian Territory), and especially not in an Indian town like Owasso. (Maybe it has changed a lot more than I think, since I went to school there, I don't know.) In my growing up years there, Indian families were no more likely to be poor, or broken than the average 'White American' family. Owasso was a Cherokee town. Some of the Cherokee who came on the "Trail of Tears" were already in professions like medical doctors. (Will Rogers' father was such a one.) Some of my school teachers were Indian, probably more than I know, but I do recall for certain that my 6th grade Science teacher was probably a full-blood Indian, and one of my best friend's father was a HS teacher, I think Science as well, but they moved away before I got up to HS. You also only needed to be 1/8 in order to receive a free college education from the state of Oklahoma, so even those whose parents might have been on the poor side had opportunities to work their way up. (Another of my childhood friends is on FaceBook, and he & his wife are often going on cruises, generally to be considered an indication of some sort of wealth. Also full-blood Indian, Cherokee, as I recall.) Another factor is that the Cherokee especially were as a majority Christians, so in that sense also, less likely to be broken families. (Maybe I'm just "living in the past".)

[Ken]

Although this is what I expected to be the cause of death, I am now very sorry to hear that she took her own life.

Her grandmother was her legal guardian, so I wonder what all other trauma she had already experienced in her young life
(due to absent parents, I mean).

Oh, to protect the children from such horrible things!

[Where is the face icon that is crying, as I am now?]

Neto,
One glaring fact overlooked in this tragic case is the chronic high suicide rate in Native American populations.
Suicide is a horrible outcome that is feared, isn’t understood.

i believe you are correct to think about “other trauma” in this child’s life.
you’re also correct to point out (as usual) political activists are QUICK to jump on the tragedy for self-promotion.
White House used+included. Political blocs have no soul. They CLAIM and exploit souls.

“Suicides Among American Indian or Alaska Native Persons —
National Violent Death Reporting System, United States, 2015–2020”
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7137a1.htm

All children+teens have problems, experience trauma on varying levels. Our culture loves to idealize children, pretend they are safe.
They never were. God provided parents+community to nuture, protect, defend from all the many hardships that exist.
Sometimes the caretakers are perpetrators of wrong. God created a mother’s womb to be a safe place.

Imagine a troubled teen in a community where suicide may be known, even common?
Suicide is a cry for the pain to end. That’s not a bad desire. Suicide is the wrong answer. “A permanent solution to a temporary problem.” Children+teens are vulnerable to making poor decisions.

Most of us survive our youthful poor decisions. Not all survive.

I cannot remember now in which thread I mentioned that this young lady was of American Indian descent. And I also do not now recall which tribe it was, but I think it was one of the original "Five Civilized Tribes" that were moved to Indian Territory (from the Eastern States). I mentioned it in the context that she was "home people", not from people who had moved into Oklahoma in recent years. What difference does that make? People who are from Oklahoma going way back will know. (Like I said, "She was home people.")

But while it its true that American Indians are repressed in many areas of the USA, I would not consider that to be the case in Eastern Oklahoma (The former Indian Territory), and especially not in an Indian town like Owasso. (Maybe it has changed a lot more than I think, since I went to school there, I don't know.) In my growing up years there, Indian families were no more likely to be poor, or broken than the average 'White American' family. Owasso was a Cherokee town. Some of the Cherokee who came on the "Trail of Tears" were already in professions like medical doctors. (Will Rogers' father was such a one.) Some of my school teachers were Indian, probably more than I know, but I do recall for certain that my 6th grade Science teacher was probably a full-blood Indian, and one of my best friend's father was a HS teacher, I think Science as well, but they moved away before I got up to HS. You also only needed to be 1/8 in order to receive a free college education from the state of Oklahoma, so even those whose parents might have been on the poor side had opportunities to work their way up. (Another of my childhood friends is on FaceBook, and he & his wife are often going on cruises, generally to be considered an indication of some sort of wealth. Also full-blood Indian, Cherokee, as I recall.) Another factor is that the Cherokee especially were as a majority Christians, so in that sense also, less likely to be broken families. (Maybe I'm just "living in the past".)

How did traditional Cherokee culture view gender? Not the assimilated version, but the original native culture?

I don't know the answer but your post made me curious.

[Neto]

How did traditional Cherokee culture view gender? Not the assimilated version, but the original native culture?

I don't know the answer but your post made me curious.

I looked up again which nation she descended from - Choctaw. I also do not know the answer to your question, but Wiki lists both Choctaw & Cherokee as having been matrilineal cultures. I think there were still cultural values in the people I went to school with back in the 60's through early 70's, but it varied from family to family. I have no idea how much there would be in present day cultural manifestations other than a basic cultural pride, and things associated with art and dance.

According to a basic on-line search the characteristics of Matrilineality (Descent through the female line) may have also involved Matrilocality (settlement of a newly married couple in the woman's village or locality). But my own Plautdietsch Mennonite culture is also strongly matrilocal, while at the same time being patrilineal. (There is a strain of something in Plautdietsch that favors this. But perhaps one only need go to the Scripture for this - That a man should leave his father and mother, and cling to his wife.)

I'm out of time now, as we have service tonight, at 6:00.

[Josh]

According to a basic on-line search the characteristics of Matrilineality (Descent through the female line) may have also involved Matrilocality (settlement of a newly married couple in the woman's village or locality). But my own Plautdietsch Mennonite culture is also strongly matrilocal, while at the same time being patrilineal. (There is a strain of something in Plautdietsch that favors this. But perhaps one only need go to the Scripture for this - That a man should leave his father and mother, and cling to his wife.)

Odd, as the Holdemans (who are also largely Plautdietsch Mennonite culture) are always patrilocal.