Conscientious Objectors in Ukraine

[RZehr]

This has excerpts from interviews of three people in Ukraine who are refusing to join the military there. Ukraine did have in their Constitution some room for such beliefs, but it looks like they might not have really meant it.
I thought it was instructive that the one person was not an actual member of a church at this time, and that is causing him some problem.

“Some Ukrainians refuse to take up arms due to religious beliefs — interview”
https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainians-r ... 00395.html

Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventists, and Ukrainian members of several other religious organizations refuse to take up arms even during the ongoing existential war. NV spoke to two such conscientious objectors to examine how they attempt reconcile the need to defend their country with pacifist religious beliefs.

…So, I left those meetings and now I’m in contact with meetings in the United States and one near Odesa. But as of now, I’m not yet a member of their congregation.

…

The court sentenced me to one year in prison [for evading mobilization]. It was followed by an appeal and a three-year suspended sentence.

The fact that I’m not currently a parishioner played against me. Of course, I could just take that certificate from a pastor, it’s very easy as I know many of them in the city. But I deliberately decided not to do this.

It’s important that the court recognized that I’m a religious person, despite the lack of supporting documents. And the appellate court took into account that I’m a family man, I have two young children, I work two jobs, and I really have contacts with local churches.

[ken_sylvania]

There were a couple young men executed in Ukraine last year for refusing to take up arms due to their religious beliefs.

[Ernie]

There were a couple young men executed in Ukraine last year for refusing to take up arms due to their religious beliefs.

Where can I read more about this?

[Josh]

Pretty much all of our church’s young men had to relocate to Poland.

Our members in Russia are all elderly women… if we had young men there, they would probably have faced the same situation.

[Ken]

There were a couple young men executed in Ukraine last year for refusing to take up arms due to their religious beliefs.

Where can I read more about this?

Yes, I'd like to see some evidence of this too.

I did some poking around and are a handful of reports in the media of conscientious objectors in Ukraine receiving prison sentences of 1-3 years for refusing conscription. But I found zero reports of any conscientious objectors being executed by Ukraine for objecting to military service.

What I did find was a UN report from May 2023 which criticized Ukraine for the summary execution of some Russian prisoners captured on the battlefield. But these are not examples of conscientious objectors. They are instances where Ukrainian soldiers shot Russian soldiers who were in the process of surrendering or had already surrendered. So war crimes possibly, depending on the circumstances. But not execution of conscientious objectors.

What one does find is endless examples of the torture and summary execution of Ukrainian civilians and captured Ukrainian soldiers by invading and occupying Russian forces in Ukraine. Endless examples of that.

And one also finds examples of Russian conscientious objectors being forced into various forms of penal battalions and turned into cannon fodder in human wave assaults on the front. Which is tantamount to execution if you are knowingly and intentionally sending them to their deaths.

In this war, one side is vastly different from the other when it comes to respect for human life, civilians lives, the lives of soldiers, and diversity of thought.

[ken_sylvania]

There were a couple young men executed in Ukraine last year for refusing to take up arms due to their religious beliefs.

Where can I read more about this?

Email from Plain News on May 23, 2023 - 042 A Tribute To Mothers

I think of the mother in the west, a believer who raised her sons to love and serve God. When her sons, ages 18 and 20, were called to the army, they explained their position, that as believers, they cannot fight. Their village is fiercely patriotic and interpreted their nonresistance as disloyalty. Recently both boys were shot—not by the army officials of either army—but by their own villagers.

[Ken]

There were a couple young men executed in Ukraine last year for refusing to take up arms due to their religious beliefs.

Where can I read more about this?

Email from Plain News on May 23, 2023 - 042 A Tribute To Mothers

I think of the mother in the west, a believer who raised her sons to love and serve God. When her sons, ages 18 and 20, were called to the army, they explained their position, that as believers, they cannot fight. Their village is fiercely patriotic and interpreted their nonresistance as disloyalty. Recently both boys were shot—not by the army officials of either army—but by their own villagers.

So an anecdotal 2nd, 3rd, 4th? hand report in the Plain News that seems to have been documented by no other news organization anywhere? And doesn't reflect how conscription actually happens in Ukraine (i.e. villagers are not involved in the conscription process). But most importantly, men ages 18 and 20 are not actually subject to conscription in Ukraine. The current age of conscription is 27 which is being lowered to 25. From the Financial Times: https://www.ft.com/content/3ce63abc-9a7 ... 5309288845

Ukrainian men between the ages of 18 and 60 are barred from leaving the country and are supposed to register with military recruitment offices for possible call-up. However, under current rules, only men who are 27 or older can be conscripted. A draft bill to lower that age to 25 was published in December, given that the rules governing mobilisation are the responsibility of parliament.

And if true, this anecdote isn't actually an example of execution, but simply murder. Or what we might once have called lynching here in the US.

In addition, this anecdote doesn't actually indicate that it is the Ukrainian side involved here and not some village in the Russian-occupied portion of the Donbass (parts of which have been under occupation since 2014) where local villagers are being conscripted to fight in pro-Russian units under the control of the occupying Russian army.

[ken_sylvania]

Where can I read more about this?

Email from Plain News on May 23, 2023 - 042 A Tribute To Mothers

I think of the mother in the west, a believer who raised her sons to love and serve God. When her sons, ages 18 and 20, were called to the army, they explained their position, that as believers, they cannot fight. Their village is fiercely patriotic and interpreted their nonresistance as disloyalty. Recently both boys were shot—not by the army officials of either army—but by their own villagers.

So an anecdotal 2nd, 3rd, 4th? hand report in the Plain News that seems to have been documented by no other news organization anywhere? And doesn't reflect how conscription actually happens in Ukraine (i.e. villagers are not involved in the conscription process).

And if true, this anecdote isn't actually an example of execution, but simply murder. Or what we might once have called lynching here in the US.

In addition, this anecdote doesn't actually indicate that it is the Ukrainian side involved here and not some village in the Russian-occupied portion of the Donbass (parts of which have been under occupation since 2014) where local villagers are being conscripted to fight in pro-Russian units under the control of the occupying Russian army.

OK, fine lynched would have been a better word. Or just shot.
You really do crack me up though.
#1 - You would have no problem at all using the term execution if it had been a gang of Russian Privates killing captured Ukrainians.
#2 - How do you know this wasn't documented by any other news organization? Do you read Ukrainian?
#3 - I suppose I should assume that you do not exist unless I can find evidence otherwise from at least two news organizations
#4 - Can you provide links to at least two news organizations who can confirm your claim that no other news organization documented the killing? After all, if we shouldn't believe the writer of that letter (I know who the writer is and know her family) then we definitely shouldn't believe some random guy named Ken who has no idea what he's talking about
#5 - I don't think I made any kind of a claim as to which "side" was responsible for the killings. Why do you imply that I did?

[Ken]

Email from Plain News on May 23, 2023 - 042 A Tribute To Mothers

So an anecdotal 2nd, 3rd, 4th? hand report in the Plain News that seems to have been documented by no other news organization anywhere? And doesn't reflect how conscription actually happens in Ukraine (i.e. villagers are not involved in the conscription process).

And if true, this anecdote isn't actually an example of execution, but simply murder. Or what we might once have called lynching here in the US.

In addition, this anecdote doesn't actually indicate that it is the Ukrainian side involved here and not some village in the Russian-occupied portion of the Donbass (parts of which have been under occupation since 2014) where local villagers are being conscripted to fight in pro-Russian units under the control of the occupying Russian army.

OK, fine lynched would have been a better word. Or just shot.
You really do crack me up though.
#1 - You would have no problem at all using the term execution if it had been a gang of Russian Privates killing captured Ukrainians.
#2 - How do you know this wasn't documented by any other news organization? Do you read Ukrainian?
#3 - I suppose I should assume that you do not exist unless I can find evidence otherwise from at least two news organizations
#4 - Can you provide links to at least two news organizations who can confirm your claim that no other news organization documented the killing? After all, if we shouldn't believe the writer of that letter (I know who the writer is and know her family) then we definitely shouldn't believe some random guy named Ken who has no idea what he's talking about
#5 - I don't think I made any kind of a claim as to which "side" was responsible for the killings. Why do you imply that I did?

The biggest hole in the story is that no one ages 18 and 20 is being conscripted in Ukraine. The conscription age is 27 and in the process of being lowered to age 25. There are 18 year-olds who are being recruited in the armed forces for sure. Heavily recruited. But they are not being conscripted.

[Soloist]

The biggest hole in the story is that no one ages 18 and 20 is being conscripted in Ukraine. The conscription age is 27 and in the process of being lowered to age 25. There are 18 year-olds who are being recruited in the armed forces for sure. Heavily recruited. But they are not being conscripted.

There is official position and then unofficial position. The article also doesn't indicate which side the martyrs were on.

Secondly, there is evidently considerable corruption in the enlistment offices. Perhaps someone was hoping to twist their arm into giving a bribe.
https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-en ... s-ukraine/