War in Gaza

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
Ken
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Re: War in Gaza

Post by Ken »

The horror continues. Now Israel is bombing Aid Convoys: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... eaths-wck/
World Central Kitchen said Tuesday that it was immediately halting its operations in Gaza after seven of its workers were killed in an Israeli strike, threatening already precarious deliveries to the besieged enclave.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu confirmed that Israel carried out the strike but said it was “unintentional” and that Israel would investigate.

The attack on the aid convoy killed three British nationals, U.S.-Canadian dual national, one Palestinian worker and citizens of Australia and Poland, according to the group, which has been prominently involved in Gaza relief efforts.

WCK CEO Erin Gore described the strike on the convoy as a “targeted attack” by the Israel Defense Forces and “unforgivable.” The food aid nonprofit has sent more than 1,700 trucks of assistance into Gaza as well as sea deliveries from Cyprus.

It said it had coordinated its activities with Israeli authorities. The team was traveling in a “deconflicted zone” in vehicles that included two armored cars branded with the WCK logo.

“Despite coordinating movements with the [Israel Defense Forces], the convoy was hit as it was leaving the Deir al-Balah warehouse, where the team had unloaded more than 100 tons of humanitarian food aid brought to Gaza on the maritime route,” the group said.

The strike is believed to be the first to kill foreigners working for an international aid organization in Gaza since the start of the war on Oct. 7, though a record number of Palestinians employed by the United Nations have been killed in the conflict. It sent shock waves through the humanitarian aid community, causing at least two other groups providing aid to pause their operations at a time when Gaza is on the brink of famine.
And according to Haaretz, this wasn’t one airstrike, but three:









Assuming Netanyahu isn't lying and this was accidental. If the IDF is unable to distinguish between military targets and a humanitarian aid convoy that coordinated its movements with the military, the effect and inevitable conclusions are the same. Israel is now waging a war of collective punishment rather than self defense. And strangling food aid is a weapon of war in Gaza.
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Josh
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Re: War in Gaza

Post by Josh »

This is a good example of why Israel’s military should be replaced with a coalition peacekeeper force and the government replaced with a coalition caretaker government.
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Grace
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Re: War in Gaza

Post by Grace »

Robert wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:26 pm

I have an opinion about what happened in Israel Oct. 7. I think there are natural consequences to actions. I do not like that there are, but it is a fact of nature. Countries fight and war often. I disagree with any country that does it, but I know it is a natural consequence to actions. I know Israel is not angel in all this. I know Palestinians are no angels in all this. I know Hamas is evil in all this.
I agree.

Be careful Robert, there was a whole thread started, just because I mentioned that someone was evil. :? :roll:
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Bootstrap
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Re: War in Gaza

Post by Bootstrap »

Robert wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:26 pmI have an opinion about what happened in Israel Oct. 7. I think there are natural consequences to actions. I do not like that there are, but it is a fact of nature. Countries fight and war often. I disagree with any country that does it, but I know it is a natural consequence to actions. I know Israel is not angel in all this. I know Palestinians are no angels in all this. I know Hamas is evil in all this.
I agree with all of this, actually.

But I also think that the natural consequences for October 7th should be for Hamas. Not for all civilians in Gaza. Just as the Israeli victims of October 7th were innocent, so are most people who live in Gaza.

I don't think Gaza should now consider all Israeli civilians fair game because of what Israel has done. I would be surprised if anyone here does think that.
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Ken
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Re: War in Gaza

Post by Ken »

Bootstrap wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 4:09 pm
Robert wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:26 pmI have an opinion about what happened in Israel Oct. 7. I think there are natural consequences to actions. I do not like that there are, but it is a fact of nature. Countries fight and war often. I disagree with any country that does it, but I know it is a natural consequence to actions. I know Israel is not angel in all this. I know Palestinians are no angels in all this. I know Hamas is evil in all this.
I agree with all of this, actually.

But I also think that the natural consequences for October 7th should be for Hamas. Not for all civilians in Gaza. Just as the Israeli victims of October 7th were innocent, so are most people who live in Gaza.

I don't think Gaza should now consider all Israeli civilians fair game because of what Israel has done. I would be surprised if anyone here does think that.
Both sides have considered each other's civilians fair game in this conflict for a very very long time. Nothing about that has changed since 10/7. All that has happened is that the war has gotten hotter.
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temporal1
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Re: War in Gaza

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 4:09 pm
Robert wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:26 pmI have an opinion about what happened in Israel Oct. 7. I think there are natural consequences to actions. I do not like that there are, but it is a fact of nature. Countries fight and war often. I disagree with any country that does it, but I know it is a natural consequence to actions. I know Israel is not angel in all this. I know Palestinians are no angels in all this. I know Hamas is evil in all this.
I agree with all of this, actually.

But I also think that the natural consequences for October 7th should be for Hamas. Not for all civilians in Gaza. Just as the Israeli victims of October 7th were innocent, so are most people who live in Gaza.

I don't think Gaza should now consider all Israeli civilians fair game because of what Israel has done. I would be surprised if anyone here does think that.
A big sticking point is, BEFORE Oct 7, Hamas went to great lengths to embed themselves in citizenry, in hospitals, in tunnels under hospitals, civilian buildings, etc. THEY STRUCK AND RAN FOR COVER BEHIND THE VULNERABLE. It was orchestrated, purposeful. Cunning.

Low and cowardly.
Which is a hallmark of terrorism. Ambush+execution of the vulnerable. What could be more cowardly?
Whether it’s one lone school murderer or an organized group. It’s the same cowardly pattern.

This was highly organized. Setting up their own civilians was part of the plan. Then cry foul when the inevitable happens.
Dirty business.

i do not envy anyone saddled with responsibility of deciding response. It was engineered to be a horrifying disaster.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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ken_sylvania
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Re: War in Gaza

Post by ken_sylvania »

Ken wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 5:34 pm The horror continues. Now Israel is bombing Aid Convoys: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... eaths-wck/
World Central Kitchen said Tuesday that it was immediately halting its operations in Gaza after seven of its workers were killed in an Israeli strike, threatening already precarious deliveries to the besieged enclave.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu confirmed that Israel carried out the strike but said it was “unintentional” and that Israel would investigate.

The attack on the aid convoy killed three British nationals, U.S.-Canadian dual national, one Palestinian worker and citizens of Australia and Poland, according to the group, which has been prominently involved in Gaza relief efforts.

WCK CEO Erin Gore described the strike on the convoy as a “targeted attack” by the Israel Defense Forces and “unforgivable.” The food aid nonprofit has sent more than 1,700 trucks of assistance into Gaza as well as sea deliveries from Cyprus.

It said it had coordinated its activities with Israeli authorities. The team was traveling in a “deconflicted zone” in vehicles that included two armored cars branded with the WCK logo.

“Despite coordinating movements with the [Israel Defense Forces], the convoy was hit as it was leaving the Deir al-Balah warehouse, where the team had unloaded more than 100 tons of humanitarian food aid brought to Gaza on the maritime route,” the group said.

The strike is believed to be the first to kill foreigners working for an international aid organization in Gaza since the start of the war on Oct. 7, though a record number of Palestinians employed by the United Nations have been killed in the conflict. It sent shock waves through the humanitarian aid community, causing at least two other groups providing aid to pause their operations at a time when Gaza is on the brink of famine.
And according to Haaretz, this wasn’t one airstrike, but three:









Assuming Netanyahu isn't lying and this was accidental. If the IDF is unable to distinguish between military targets and a humanitarian aid convoy that coordinated its movements with the military, the effect and inevitable conclusions are the same. Israel is now waging a war of collective punishment rather than self defense. And strangling food aid is a weapon of war in Gaza.
It's like Israel is copying everything US did wrong in Afghanistan....
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Ken
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Re: War in Gaza

Post by Ken »

temporal1 wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:16 pm
Bootstrap wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 4:09 pm
Robert wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:26 pmI have an opinion about what happened in Israel Oct. 7. I think there are natural consequences to actions. I do not like that there are, but it is a fact of nature. Countries fight and war often. I disagree with any country that does it, but I know it is a natural consequence to actions. I know Israel is not angel in all this. I know Palestinians are no angels in all this. I know Hamas is evil in all this.
I agree with all of this, actually.

But I also think that the natural consequences for October 7th should be for Hamas. Not for all civilians in Gaza. Just as the Israeli victims of October 7th were innocent, so are most people who live in Gaza.

I don't think Gaza should now consider all Israeli civilians fair game because of what Israel has done. I would be surprised if anyone here does think that.
A big sticking point is, BEFORE Oct 7, Hamas went to great lengths to embed themselves in citizenry, in hospitals, in tunnels under hospitals, civilian buildings, etc. THEY STRUCK AND RAN FOR COVER BEHIND THE VULNERABLE. It was orchestrated, purposeful. Cunning.

Low and cowardly.
Which is a hallmark of terrorism. Ambush+execution of the vulnerable. What could be more cowardly?
Whether it’s one lone school murderer or an organized group. It’s the same cowardly pattern.

This was highly organized. Setting up their own civilians was part of the plan. Then cry foul when the inevitable happens.
Dirty business.

i do not envy anyone saddled with responsibility of deciding response. It was engineered to be a horrifying disaster.
Israel also wields civilians as weapons. That is essentially what the entire settlement program is in the West Bank.
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Bootstrap
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Re: War in Gaza

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:16 pm
Bootstrap wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 4:09 pmI agree with all of this, actually.

But I also think that the natural consequences for October 7th should be for Hamas. Not for all civilians in Gaza. Just as the Israeli victims of October 7th were innocent, so are most people who live in Gaza.

I don't think Gaza should now consider all Israeli civilians fair game because of what Israel has done. I would be surprised if anyone here does think that.
A big sticking point is, BEFORE Oct 7, Hamas went to great lengths to embed themselves in citizenry, in hospitals, in tunnels under hospitals, civilian buildings, etc. THEY STRUCK AND RAN FOR COVER BEHIND THE VULNERABLE. It was orchestrated, purposeful. Cunning.

Low and cowardly.
I agree. But that doesn't make all citizens fair game.

And if Israel wants to take out all Gazan hospitals, why doesn't Israel set up military field hospitals where the sick and wounded can be cared for and women can safely give birth? If Israel wants to control food shipments to stop Gazans from starving, why doesn't Israel coordinate it themselves?
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temporal1
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Re: War in Gaza

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:53 pm I agree. But that doesn't make all citizens fair game.

And if Israel wants to take out all Gazan hospitals, why doesn't Israel set up military field hospitals where the sick and wounded can be cared for and women can safely give birth? If Israel wants to control food shipments to stop Gazans from starving, why doesn't Israel coordinate it themselves?
These judgments are based on listening to or favoring one side.
i’m not convinced Israel sees all citizens as fair game, nor that Israel wants to take out all Gazan hospitals. Not sure about control of food shipments, either. i’m aware of the allegations.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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