Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
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MaxPC
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Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by MaxPC »

More than 5000 rockets rained down on Israel. It is the 50th anniversary of the 1973 Arab-Israeli war.
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Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Soloist »

Reports of suicide bombers paragliding in, light trucks with fighters skirmishing, at least one barracks was reported as overrun with everyone killed. There are reports of bomb shelters being forcibly opened with all the civilians being murdered. Also attacks from speedboats, the level of strike and coordination (if reports are accurate) is very well done given Israel seems to have not been prepared.
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Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

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Max (Plain Catholic)
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Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by MaxPC »

“It seems as though the Hamas militants have caught Israel off their guard.
“They [Israel] have been celebrating a festival. Having said that, tensions have been building for a long time, the whole peace process appears to have been frozen.
“Hamas, which is backed by Iran and others, has been waiting for an opportunity to put a marker down.”
More information.
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by JimFoxvog »

Let's pray for peace.

Hamas's attack is evil.

Israel's counterattack, killing hundreds of civilians is also evil.

War is evil.
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Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Soloist »

JimFoxvog wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2023 10:30 pm Let's pray for peace.

Hamas's attack is evil.

Israel's counterattack, killing hundreds of civilians is also evil.

War is evil.
Yes… war is a terrible thing.
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Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

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MattY
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Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by MattY »

Hamas's goal - and Iran's - is probably to torch the diplomacy between the Israelis and the Saudis, which has the potential to finally have Saudi Arabia recognize Israel as a nation and change the geopolitics of the Middle East - and they symbolically chose the anniversary of the Yom Kippur War to do it. Don't buy any explanation that pivots blame from the terrorists to the victims: that's simply falling for the extremists' propaganda.

Hard to know what should happen in response. Hamas is nothing but a terrorist organization, and nations have a right to defend themselves against terrorists - there's no moral equivalence. Hamas uses civilians as human shields and dares Israel to attack. But it's hard to imagine a severe retaliation and then a return to the status quo will help - even if it's a severely weakened Hamas or other enemies of Israel in charge of Gaza. Violence begets violence, and Palestinian kids who were hurt or lost loved ones in the reprisal will grow up to be prime Hamas recruits.

On the other hand, no military response is hardly an option either - Hamas doesn't want to kill Israelis primarily because of anything Israel did, but because they hate Jews and want to destroy Israel. Arab culture has had a deep antisemitic sickness for a long time and Hamas is the result. Hamas will keep attacking no matter what Israel does.

But we know how to turn around enemy countries and poor areas, because it's been done before: occupation and aid programs from wealthy countries, and economic transformation. Japan is a US ally today and a first world country because of US occupation, aid, and social/political reforms after WWII. The Philippines were occupied for about 50 years in the early 1900s, and have some of the most positive views of the US today (in favorable/ unfavorable polls), as do Japan and South Korea, which was also improved by American aid and industrialization. Hawaii is wealthy today because it was taken over and became an American state. Puerto Rico is the most wealthy area in Latin America because it is a US territory.

That's why, in my mind, the only "solution" that might offer a chance for real change seems to be the complete destruction of Hamas, which must not be allowed to be in charge of Gaza any longer, and the occupation of Gaza either by Israel or by international peacekeeping forces. Then, massive influx of aid to improve the lives of Gaza residents. It would be long and costly, and certainly both Israelis and Gazans would die in the process of destroying Hamas and pacifying the area. But the status quo won't improve anything; nor will lots of Western aid pouring in with Hamas still in charge. That would merely make Hamas wealthier, even more dangerous, and more entrenched. Gazans need to see that Hamas is the problem and only friendship with Israel and the West can improve their situation. (And that's also why simply occupying Gaza to get rid of Hamas and then withdrawing, with no commitment to help Gaza residents, won't be a solution either. Third world countries in Africa and South America were occupied for many years solely for the benefit of European nations, and left the people there in poverty. Cruel and greedy dictators in those countries have also hurt them of course, but if you want stable government institutions in other countries, you have to do a lot of work to set them up first and get the population to buy into them).
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Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Ken »

The leaders of Hamas are safely ensconced in Qatar. Leveling Gaza won't get at the actual leadership of Hamas: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... on-israel/

This isn't about Biden or the Biden Administration either. Israel is a grown-up country. They are not the 51st State. This is really about the complete failure of the Netanyahu government to manage security. Netanyahu has been too busy waging a culture war within Israel and against the professional military that was opposing his power grab in the courts. This is also about Netanyahu's focus on using the Israeli military to support settlement policies in the West Bank. The article above cited by Grace [which has been moved to Politics] criticizing the Biden Administration for ignoring Hamas should really be directed at Netanyahu and his government.

For example, from yesterday's Wall Street Journal: https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/a ... n-aa6d539a
Israeli security leaders had played down the threat from Hamas in recent months, as the group abstained from conflicts started by its smaller ally in Gaza, Palestinian Islamic Jihad. There was a sense that Israel, with its Iron Dome air defense systems, had rendered ineffective Gaza’s main threat of short-range rockets.

Last month, the Israeli military confidently characterized Gaza as being in a state of “stable instability,” suggesting that the dangers posed by Hamas militants were largely contained.

Recent Israeli intelligence assessments of Hamas were that the militant group had shifted its focus to trying to stoke violence in the West Bank and that it was looking to avoid launching major attacks from Gaza in an effort to avoid the kinds of punishing Israeli military responses that have devastated the isolated area in the past.
Why the focus on the West Bank? The violence they are talking about in the West Bank is guarding against potential violence against Israeli settlers who are guilty of stealing Palestinian lands. And so, on the eve of this Hamas invasion we have the Netanyahu government focusing its military and security apparatus on propping up settler policy in the West Bank instead of defending against Hamas:



Last edited by ohio jones on Sun Oct 08, 2023 1:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: added reference to moved post
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Ken
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Re: Major attack on Israel by Hamas

Post by Ken »

Ties between Hamas and Russia. Both of which appear to be client states of Iran, as today Iranian arms and support are fueling both Hamas' invasion of Israel and Russia's invasion of Ukraine:

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220 ... nd-russia/
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/20 ... ion-israel
https://cepa.org/article/only-good-news ... aelis-die/
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