Article: Fertility Collapse Demands New Cultures

[mike]

From Palladium
MALCOLM AND SIMONE COLLINS APRIL 6, 2023
Fertility Collapse Demands New Cultures

Basically this is just another article decrying the collapsing birth rates across the world. What is different about this one is the call for what it calls "new cultures," or new ways of thinking. I am curious what you think about the chance of such cultures developing. The needed cultural features for population growth are being depleted not just in Mennonite/Anabaptist circles but all over the world as traditional cultures become absorbed into mainstream culture. Here is there concluding paragraph with the key sentence in bold.

Mainstream culture does not work: it does not motivate sustainable birth rates. In order to make the leap to a culture that does, many of us must create new cultures or significantly fortify those we inherited. Those who will throw their chips in with this massive cultural and demographic experiment by consciously creating a family, and then raising it in an intergenerationally durable culture, will shape the future of our species. Is this an easy feat? No. But what makes this endeavor so appealing and hopeful is that it is within nearly everyone’s reach, so long as they’re willing to try. The future belongs to those who show up.

I thought it was interesting the extent to which countries such as China are trying to combat this collapse, although so far, their efforts are unsuccessful.

I'm curious what your thoughts are.

[MaxPC]

From Palladium
MALCOLM AND SIMONE COLLINS APRIL 6, 2023
Fertility Collapse Demands New Cultures

Basically this is just another article decrying the collapsing birth rates across the world. What is different about this one is the call for what it calls "new cultures," or new ways of thinking. I am curious what you think about the chance of such cultures developing. The needed cultural features for population growth are being depleted not just in Mennonite/Anabaptist circles but all over the world as traditional cultures become absorbed into mainstream culture. Here is there concluding paragraph with the key sentence in bold.

Mainstream culture does not work: it does not motivate sustainable birth rates. In order to make the leap to a culture that does, many of us must create new cultures or significantly fortify those we inherited. Those who will throw their chips in with this massive cultural and demographic experiment by consciously creating a family, and then raising it in an intergenerationally durable culture, will shape the future of our species. Is this an easy feat? No. But what makes this endeavor so appealing and hopeful is that it is within nearly everyone’s reach, so long as they’re willing to try. The future belongs to those who show up.

I thought it was interesting the extent to which countries such as China are trying to combat this collapse, although so far, their efforts are unsuccessful.

I'm curious what your thoughts are.

Random thoughts immediately come to my mind.
As long as there is a constant bombardment from mainstream media (both broadcast and internet), there will always be a supersaturation of mainstream cultural ideology that celebrates and elevates the individual's needs above those of family needs or community needs. "Me first" is the mantra of mainstream culture.

Mainstream cultural ideology, as we all know, is antithetical to the worship of God and the self-sacrifice of the individual's self-centered focus. In order to promote a healthy family and community environment that is intergenerationally durable, the individuals must be "other centered" i.e. focused on the care of others. Delayed gratification is foreign to those in the clasp of the mainstream culture's ideology.

[mike]

"Me first" is the mantra of mainstream culture.

What do you think are the chances that mainstream society gives up selfishness in terms of having children anytime soon, even if it could be convinced that doing so is in its own ultimate best interest?

[Josh]

What actually will happen is older cultures will prevail, and cultures that insist on sterilising their fecund members and murdering their viable offspring will find they simply cease to exist.

[AndersonD]

"Me first" is the mantra of mainstream culture.

What do you think are the chances that mainstream society gives up selfishness in terms of having children anytime soon, even if it could be convinced that doing so is in its own ultimate best interest?

In the plain communities, there's a network of support from uncles, aunts, and grandparents that general society doesn't have. So it's a daunting, expensive task to have children and I personally don't blame individuals for refraining. I also believe there's an overall depressed outlook about the world and many of my neighbors don't believe it's ethical to bring children into our present environment.

The chances of society shifting are near zero. China is an excellent case study and it is irreversible.

[mike]

"Me first" is the mantra of mainstream culture.

What do you think are the chances that mainstream society gives up selfishness in terms of having children anytime soon, even if it could be convinced that doing so is in its own ultimate best interest?

In the plain communities, there's a network of support from uncles, aunts, and grandparents that general society doesn't have. So it's a daunting, expensive task to have children and I personally don't blame individuals for refraining. I also believe there's an overall depressed outlook about the world and many of my neighbors don't believe it's ethical to bring children into our present environment.

The chances of society shifting are near zero. China is an excellent case study and it is irreversible.

Those social support networks used to be present (and to some extent still are) in many traditional cultures, not just plain people. However, even with those structures still largely in place, plain people are still choosing to have fewer and fewer children. I think that the decision to have smaller families comes before the social structures disintegrate, and it is one of the reason for the eventual lack of such structures. There just aren't that many uncles and aunts anymore, because at this point we have been having smaller families for several generations. It's a snowballing effect that, like you say, is basically irreversible. Unless there is some kind of herculean effort, which is what this article is very unrealistically calling for.

[Ken]

In the 19th Century and in agrarian societies that still exist around the world, having more children was an advantage because it provided more labor. My grandparents had and raised 14 children on their big family farm in Oregon from the 1920s to 1950s and all that extra labor made the enterprise work with all the sons working in the field and all the daughters working in the house, helping raise the young, can and put up food, sew clothing, etc. That is still the case in agrarian societies in the global south (Africa, parts of Asia and Latin America) but as those societies become more urban they will see the same trends as in Europe and the developed north.

But today when the vast majority of people don't live and work on farms (and farms themselves are highly mechanized) there is no economic advantage to a large family, it is only costs. As a parent of 3 I know how expensive it is to raise children in the modern world. My wife and I are upper middle class and it is tough for us sometimes, it must be much more difficult for families with much more modest means.

The answer to the issue isn't to expect families to just be self-sacrificing for the good of society. It is to make it easier for families to support children. Will that turn the tide? Probably not completely. Every social problem is complex with multiple causes and multiple solutions. But making it easier to have children in this country would certainly help alleviate some of the reasons why people aren't having them today.

[mike]

But making it easier to have children in this country would certainly help alleviate some of the reasons why people aren't having them today.

How could that be accomplished?

[mike]

One way to make it easier for people to have children would be to make it cheaper, and a great way to make that happen is make it easy to use midwives and dedicated birthing centers, which plain people of course already do. These are far less expensive than hospital births. And yet many states make it expensive and difficult, if not outright illegal, for midwives to operate. If people choose to use an unlicensed but experienced midwife, allow them to do so.

[temporal1]

Hungary doesn’t view increasing families as either impossible or rocket science:

2020 / “The success of Hungary’s family policy: 2020 has been our best year to date”
The Family Protection Action Plan was launched by the Hungarian government in February 2019 and has since grown into an impressive success story. Here’s where we’re standing now.
https://abouthungary.hu/blog/the-succes ... ar-to-date

Incentivizing traditional families is not a new concept. Anywhere on earth.
It was the standard in the U.S. until recent years.

It was recognized that 1 working head of household with dependents, wife+children, 1) would have more expenses;
and, 2) through children, would contribute significantly to the outer community, by invested time, effort, financial obligations.

Today, many homes have 2 breadwinners and no children, but happily take advantage of incentives created for child-producers.
Disposable income: They buy things and travel a lot. Some buy children.