Cultural Separation from Parents

[GaryK]

I thought I'd move this to another thread to keep from sidetracking that thread.

The issue isn't that these students received a Catholic education. The issue is that in many cases, education was coerced and children were separated from their parents with the intention of weakening family bonds so that the children could be acculturated. That's what makes this cultural genocide.

The question this raised in mind is, how is this different than what is happening in some school districts today where gender indoctrination is being coerced on children and in some cases without parental consent?

Unless the kids are removed from their parents' homes and shipped thousands of miles away, it's not the same. What happened with the residential schools in Canada and the US meets the legal definition of genocide. What's happening to kidnapped Ukrainian children being sent to Russia and adopted by Russian families meets the legal definition of genocide. What you're describing doesn't meet that definition.

Which specific school districts are indoctrinating kids without parental consent?

Here's one article that gets to the point of the OP. This article doesn't say what is taught in the school but it seems clear there were things going on behind parents backs.

Jessica Bradshaw found out that her 15-year-old identified as transgender at school after she glimpsed a homework assignment with an unfamiliar name scrawled at the top.

When she asked about the name, the teenager acknowledged that, at his request, teachers and administrators at his high school in Southern California had for six months been letting him use the boy’s bathroom and calling him by male pronouns.

Given those complexities, Mrs. Bradshaw said she resented the fact that the school had made her feel like a bad parent for wondering whether educators had put her teenager, a minor, on a path the school wasn’t qualified to oversee.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/us/g ... rents.html

[ohio jones]

Nevertheless, would YOU want teachers helping YOUR daughter transition to a different gender behind YOUR back?

(snip) Not that they are going to get transitioned against their will in school.

A comprehensive answer to a completely different question.

[Ken]

Nevertheless, would YOU want teachers helping YOUR daughter transition to a different gender behind YOUR back?

(snip) Not that they are going to get transitioned against their will in school.

A comprehensive answer to a completely different question.

I don't accept the premise that they are at risk of getting transitioned against their will behind my back. And every story I read about that sort of thing happening falls apart when you start looking closer.

It's like asking if am I afraid of my children being transitioned into Chinese behind my back. Or into Hindus. No, I'm not afraid of those things either.

[RZehr]

Parental right, child rights, neither are sacrosanct. Step back and let right, righteousness, be the guide. When parents, child, teacher, whomever, are wicked, they should be stopped. When parent, child, teacher, whomever, are doing right, that should be assisted.
The actual problem, is that people no longer are moored to any real righteousness. They don’t even know what it is many time, rather they only look to the laws of the land for guidance.

[temporal1]

^^RZehr, they don’t know, largely because of policy stumbling blocks preventing, forbiding+denying. At taxpayer expense.
Distance, location do not matter. Truth prevails no matter time, space, distance, location.

That’s what made Jesus so terrifying on earth, this has not changed. Jesus is not a “situational” phenomena.


A lot of the problems in our gov systems, as they’ve been allowed to unfold in recent decades .. is the zealous attempt to prevent every minority wrong via human law, the result is unwittingly harming the majority. Because, human law is NOT sufficient.

Human law most often leads directly to MORE human law, still not sufficient, just evermore crippling. For the majority.
No help for stated victims, stifling the majority. At taxpayer expense.

Buildings full of written human law cannot compare to 1 Bible. In itself, an inspired miracle.

Seeking after human law for life’s answers will not satisfy. It can’t. John 14:6

[Ken]

Parental right, child rights, neither are sacrosanct. Step back and let right, righteousness, be the guide. When parents, child, teacher, whomever, are wicked, they should be stopped. When parent, child, teacher, whomever, are doing right, that should be assisted.
The actual problem, is that people no longer are moored to any real righteousness. They don’t even know what it is many time, rather they only look to the laws of the land for guidance.

Parents have a right to be involved in the medical decisions of their children. Yes, absolutely. In fact, their rights (and those of their children) far exceed any state interest in overruling those rights which is happening right now in many states. And if some child wants to override the medical decisions of their parents there should generally be a formal legal process for this.

Parents do not necessarily have a right to be informed of every detail of their children's lives, nor are schools obligated to endlessly operate a police state in which everything their children do is reported to parents. The examples cited above are not, in fact, medical at all, they are social and no different from any of the following examples:

1. On a daily basis students are found to be out of dress code. Short skirts, crop tops, boys in tank tops, etc. They are sent to change and no one bothers to call home unless the student is defiant and it becomes a disciplinary case and the student is sent to in school suspension for insubordination. I know there are many HS students who leave home dressed one way and arrive at school dressed differently. Probably happens at every school in the country including Christian ones. Or leaves home without makeup and arrives at school with makeup. Etc. It would be a full time job for school secretaries to call home about every one of those cases. Some of it is trans. But probably 99% is not.

2. On a daily basis students are using cell phones in ways that their parents disapprove. And if the parent forbids the student from having a cell phone they have them anyway. Maybe a friend passed on his/her old iPhone 10 when the friend upgraded to an iPhone 12. Or maybe the student ordered an old $50 used phone on craigslist and had it sent to a friends house, or picked it up in person. And once the kid gets an old phone (which are literally everywhere) they can use it anywhere there is WiFi or get a pre-paid SIM card at Wal-Mart or probably any convenience store. Should teachers report home every time they see a kid with a cell phone in school?

3. Kids are always goofing around in non-gender conforming ways. Maybe a boy has on makeup. Or an earring. Or a pony tail. Maybe a girl has short hair and no makeup. Perhaps she is wearing boy's black converse high-tops and a men's Seattle Seahawks football jersey. Do we call home to report that?

4. Kids are constantly trading lunches, picking up fast food for each other, etc. Do we call home every time a student is eating something other than the lunch his mom packed for him or expected him to buy at school?

5. At the middle school and HS level kids are always pairing off into boyfriends and girlfriends. Do we report back to the parents every time we see a boy and girl holding hands? What about a boy and boy? Or girl and girl? Do we let it slide when it is a boy and girl but not when it is a boy and boy?

6. Kids go by an endless array of names and nicknames with their friends. Some of them are gamer handles. Some are rapper handles. Some are gender-nonconforming. Some are sports nicknames. Mostly they don't even tell teachers these things. A lot of it is mostly online. Should schools be investigating and reporting all this to parents?

Bottom line, parents need to pay attention to their children, talk to them, understand them, and also trust them. And not expect the whole world to police their children's behavior for them, especially behavior that is not illegal.

[ken_sylvania]

When the school makes a policy that says certain things are, by policy, to be hidden from the parents they reveal that they have an agenda.

[Ken]

When the school makes a policy that says certain things are, by policy, to be hidden from the parents they reveal that they have an agenda.

The NYT story above doesn't say that the high school was hiding anything from the parent. They just weren't reporting home on their child's social life. Just like most high schools don't generally report back to the parent about all the other details of their children's social life. As I pointed out, there are a bazillion things that high school kids do that some parents might want to know about. Schools aren't in the business of policing every aspect of kid's social lives. We don't live in a police state and schools do not monitor every aspect of student's lives.

The article made 3 claims. The kid was using a different name, was using different pronouns, and wanted to use the boy's bathroom.

With respect to names. Students use different names all the time. It is trivial and accommodated. No one really cares. Pronouns are rarely an issue since they are only relevant when speaking about a student in the 3rd person and frankly that rarely ever happens in a school setting. The boy's bathroom thing is the only thing that seems a policy stretch in this story. From my point of view, letting kids use an opposite sex bathroom should probably only be a formal accommodation that the school allows after some sort of administrative process involving parents, psychologists, counselors, etc. to verify that the student is, indeed, legitimately transgender and not just goofing around. Just like you would do for any other official educational accommodation like allowing extra time on tests or a seeing eye dog in class or whatever. At my school the few kids who are transgender normally use one of the solo staff bathrooms in the office where they have to go past a gauntlet of secretaries and around an office hallway to get to a set of solo staff bathrooms that they use. Does the school call home if some kid wants to use one? Honestly I don't know but I kind of doubt it. It is just a bathroom and kids gotta pee. So what?

We are starting a new school year and I teach kids that same age (15) this year (mostly 9th and 10th graders). I have about 150 new students and I'm still getting all their names sorted out and the attendance rosters adjusted to reflect the names that they actually use. Out of those 150 students, probably at least 35 have let me know that they prefer some other name than what is on their official school roster. I have not made 35 calls home to let parents know that their students are going by different names than are what are on their birth certificate. It is the routine thing that teachers do every year.

For example, I have a boy named Angel who goes by Kai (his middle name)
I have a girl named Chastity who goes by Chas
I have a boy named Mauricio who goes by Moe
I have a boy named Jhanuvhia (laotian name) who goes by J. HIs last name is even longer and more unpronounceable.
I have a Nicholas who goes by Nick, a Matthew who goes by Matt and a Mateo who goes by Teo
I have a girl named Milaya who goes by Lilly
I have a girl named Ximena who goes by Mia
I have a girl named Alexandrina who goes by Alex
I have a boy named Aleksandr who also goes by Alex
I have a girl names Alexandra who goes by Lexi
I have a boy named Maxim who goes by Max
I have a girl named Maxina who also goes by Max
I have two McKenzie's in one class, one goes by Zen
I have an Ana Magdalena who goes by Maggie

and two dozen more kids who go by something other than what is on their birth certificate. Do I care? No. I use whatever name they tell me they wish to be called in class. Which is usually what their friends call them. I certainly don't call home to report to parents that their kid is using some different name in class.

If schools are giving out hormones or hormone blockers without the knowledge of consent of parents that would be an issue. And that doesn't actually happen. If they are accommodating a student's request to go by a different name than what is on the birth certificate? Who cares. That happens hundreds of times at every school in the country.

[RZehr]

Matthew being called Matt is just not pertinent to this conversation.

[Ken]

Matthew being called Matt is just not pertinent to this conversation.

It is absolutely pertinent.

You either accommodate students in their wish to go by a different name or you don't. You don't just accommodate only the students who's preferred name is one that you personally approve of because it conforms to your own personal notion of what is gender appropriate. That would be treating your students in a highly unequitable manner.

And in this day and age if you as a teacher decided to only use student's formal given names and/or refused to accommodate the occasional LGBT kid with their preferred name request it would take about 3 hours for the word to spread around the school via social media and half your students would hate you and think you a bigot even before they arrived in your class. And due to the telephone game effect the story would expand and get embellished until it is unrecognizable. And then there goes your one opportunity to make a good first impression. And the rest of your year is going to be a hostile battle that you won't win. If students want to make your life miserable, they very much can and there is very little you can do about it. If they are clever and motivated enough they can even get you fired.