Sattler College Turmoil

[RZehr]

My skepticism about Sattler is based on my knowledge of the actual economics of higher education and small private colleges in this country. Even many institutions that own all their land, have facilities and infrastructure long paid for, a deep alumni base, and the support of a denomination are often struggling and even go bankrupt and close. The economics are only getting more challenging not less as time goes on. And Sattler has none of those advantages.

Maybe Sattler has none of those disadvantages. Maybe those aren’t advantages.
Maybe if we look at this through the lens of a typical lifecycle of a business or organization, we see that it may have more similarities to these, and less similarity to a other small, but old, staid, colleges at the end of their, and their constituencies, life cycle. Maybe.

Sattler is young and aggressive and focused and still on the up swing.

It appears to have just one single deep pocketed donor with absolutely no apparent path towards self sufficiency or even growth. I have to imagine that no matter how deep the pockets are, the philanthropist who founded Sattler will eventually come to tire of heavily subsidizing the college educations of middle class students whose families have the wherewithal to pay for it themselves. Which yes, is exactly what is happening the more Sattler lowers its tuition to attract students (the same merit aid argument). If I had that kind of wealth, that isn't how I'd spend it if I was looking to make an impact in the world.

Sounds to me, (in this thread) that the college is sort of a tool of the church. A mechanism for growing the FOTW franchise.

[Josh]

Unfortunately, I can’t say I want Sattler to succeed, because at its core it is a denominational college and seminary for promoting a specific denomination that both teaches false doctrine and also is at odds with Anabaptism and true Christianity as a whole.

But beside that, I no longer want to see Sattler “succeed” because I don’t think institutions which go to the lengths the did to trash their former President and Provost (? - I’m not sure what position the other person who left was in, Dean perhaps?). We already have enough corrupt academic institutions and don’t need another.

Finally, Sattler’s actual academic prowess appears to be roughly on par with a narrow vocational school or a denominational Bible college. To give you an idea, Sattler is less impressive than the nearby Wesleyan Holiness Bible school near me (which does now have 4 year degrees), and has the usual music, theology, schoolteacher, and pre-medicine sort of tracks. It is nothing approaching a liberal arts college. Nor does it pretend to be one.

Sattler’s founder, on the other hand, kept claiming it was going to be a “world class” institution with Harvard and Oxford faculty, which so far it has not become.

I fail to see what Sattler really provides that can’t be found at, for example, Faith Builders. FBEP also doesn’t have a history of major drama and remains in peace with the denominations that supply its students. It doesn’t pretend to be an elite institution. And it seems to provide good quality academic outcomes, even as it keeps its small, humble focus.

[Ken]

My skepticism about Sattler is based on my knowledge of the actual economics of higher education and small private colleges in this country. Even many institutions that own all their land, have facilities and infrastructure long paid for, a deep alumni base, and the support of a denomination are often struggling and even go bankrupt and close. The economics are only getting more challenging not less as time goes on. And Sattler has none of those advantages.

Maybe Sattler has none of those disadvantages. Maybe those aren’t advantages.
Maybe if we look at this through the lens of a typical lifecycle of a business or organization, we see that it may have more similarities to these, and less similarity to a other small, but old, staid, colleges at the end of their, and their constituencies, life cycle. Maybe.

Sattler is young and aggressive and focused and still on the up swing.

Is it? Is it growing? Is its endowment growing? What upward trajectory are you seeing and how are you measuring it?

It appears to have just one single deep pocketed donor with absolutely no apparent path towards self sufficiency or even growth. I have to imagine that no matter how deep the pockets are, the philanthropist who founded Sattler will eventually come to tire of heavily subsidizing the college educations of middle class students whose families have the wherewithal to pay for it themselves. Which yes, is exactly what is happening the more Sattler lowers its tuition to attract students (the same merit aid argument). If I had that kind of wealth, that isn't how I'd spend it if I was looking to make an impact in the world.

Sounds to me, (in this thread) that the college is sort of a tool of the church. A mechanism for growing the FOTW franchise.

If that is the case then it is the very opposite of a liberal arts college.

Is it working? Is Sattler actually growing the FOTW franchise as you put it?

[Judas Maccabeus]

So how do universities rise in the rankings? By attracting students with higher test scores. And price is the easiest way for them to do that. Merit scholarships are simply a way that universities use to lower the price for the most qualified applicants to convince them to choose their school over a more prestigious or more highly ranked school that may offer less in the way of merit scholarships. Individual merit really has little to do with it.

And test scores are somehow unrelated to individual merit?

If you get tired of teaching, you could have a promising career as a Reformed theologian.

They are related, but not absolutely. Some institutions figure out what is on the high stakes test their students take, and teach to the test, some do not. At the institution I graduated from, they CLEARLY taught the test, and when I sat the board exam I and most of my cohort did really well. I suspect we scored better than we really were. One of my classmates allegedly snuck behind the building we were taking the test in and smoked weed......he still passed.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Sounds to me, (in this thread) that the college is sort of a tool of the church. A mechanism for growing the FOTW franchise.

This is what I have long believed.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Is it? Is it growing? Is its endowment growing? What upward trajectory are you seeing and how are you measuring it?

If I understand the funding model, it does not have an endowment per se, Just "promised " contributions.

[RZehr]

My skepticism about Sattler is based on my knowledge of the actual economics of higher education and small private colleges in this country. Even many institutions that own all their land, have facilities and infrastructure long paid for, a deep alumni base, and the support of a denomination are often struggling and even go bankrupt and close. The economics are only getting more challenging not less as time goes on. And Sattler has none of those advantages.

Maybe Sattler has none of those disadvantages. Maybe those aren’t advantages.
Maybe if we look at this through the lens of a typical lifecycle of a business or organization, we see that it may have more similarities to these, and less similarity to a other small, but old, staid, colleges at the end of their, and their constituencies, life cycle. Maybe.

Sattler is young and aggressive and focused and still on the up swing.

Is it? Is it growing? Is its endowment growing? What upward trajectory are you seeing and how are you measuring it?

Look at how many students they started with, and how many they have now.

They don’t have a traditional endowment, never did. What has grown is the amount of money Finny has committed to.

I think it is not uncommon for a startup company to have some top people split fairly early on. Especially if the company is not about profit, but about vision and direction. Money will hold people together if that is what their motive is, like a startup company. But a startup nonprofit seems like the vision plays a bigger role. Sattler is similar to a business in that it has a clear boss and owner. This is a big difference between it, and your run of the mill non-profits, I think.

It appears to have just one single deep pocketed donor with absolutely no apparent path towards self sufficiency or even growth. I have to imagine that no matter how deep the pockets are, the philanthropist who founded Sattler will eventually come to tire of heavily subsidizing the college educations of middle class students whose families have the wherewithal to pay for it themselves. Which yes, is exactly what is happening the more Sattler lowers its tuition to attract students (the same merit aid argument). If I had that kind of wealth, that isn't how I'd spend it if I was looking to make an impact in the world.

Sounds to me, (in this thread) that the college is sort of a tool of the church. A mechanism for growing the FOTW franchise.

If that is the case then it is the very opposite of a liberal arts college.

Is it working? Is Sattler actually growing the FOTW franchise as you put it?

Considering how it started with one church, and I sometimes hear of other FOTW-esque groups popping up? Yes, I’d say they are having/had some success. To be clear, I don’t keep up with it closely at all. Just hear things once in a while.

It’s Charity all over again, (as far as I’m concerned). Mennonites of different stripes, who are not happy with their current churches, starting franchises cut from the FOTW cloth.
Complete with the disclaimers that “we aren’t really FOTW, but yes, we fellowship back and forth with them, and really appreciate them”, and wearing distinctive cloth coverings. And conservative Mennonites resisting the real and perceived “sheep stealing”.
I actually wish them the best, but to me it is all so very familiar.

In short, yes, I think it is working forth them.

[Ken]

Look at how many students they started with, and how many they have now.

I have no idea how many they started with or have now. But continually dropping tuition and attempting to go tuition free isn't a good sign. If the school was an attractive and competitive package they wouldn't have to do that. Essentially Finny is just paying for the college educations of a bunch of middle class kids. Doesn't seem like a particularly useful thing to do. If the place just vanished or had never existed, how many of those students still would have managed to get their own educations the normal way by working, borrowing and with the help of family? Most I would guess. The fact of the matter is that college education is an expensive proposition. Someone always has to pick up the tab. Either the government (loans, grants, public schools) private wealth (private schools with endowments) or family. There is no free lunch.

I think it is not uncommon for a startup company to have some top people split fairly early on. Especially if the company is not about profit, but about vision and direction. Money will hold people together if that is what their motive is, like a startup company. But a startup nonprofit seems like the vision plays a bigger role. Sattler is similar to a business in that it has a clear boss and owner. This is a big difference between it, and your run of the mill non-profits, I think.

Well, OK. But this isn't a startup company. If they are going to be sustainable they need to broaden their funding base. Seems like it is actually narrowing. Church schools traditionally do that by being attached to a substantial denomination that can support the project through thick and thin in form of both students and contributions. That isn't the case here.

Considering how it started with one church, and I sometimes hear of other FOTW-esque groups popping up? Yes, I’d say they are having/had some success. To be clear, I don’t keep up with it closely at all. Just hear things once in a while.

It’s Charity all over again, (as far as I’m concerned). Mennonites of different stripes, who are not happy with their current churches, starting franchises cut from the FOTW cloth.
Complete with the disclaimers that “we aren’t really FOTW, but yes, we fellowship back and forth with them, and really appreciate them”, and wearing distinctive cloth coverings. And conservative Mennonites resisting the real and perceived “sheep stealing”.
I actually wish them the best, but to me it is all so very familiar.

In short, yes, I think it is working forth them.

Personally I think they have the whole equation backwards. You grow the church until it reaches the point that it can support institutions like a college. Not the other way around. In any event, is it the college that is contributing to that growth? Or is it peripheral to it?

I'm obviously not invested one way or the other. Some here seem eager to see the place fail. I'm just a casual observer with some personal knowledge of the whole college business as I have sent three daughters to college (well, number 3 starts college this fall) so over the course of that experience I have actually visited dozens and dozens of colleges and researched many more. Public, private, small, larger, religious, non-religious. And I have also advised many students in choosing and applying for college over the years as well. So I have a decent sense of what the overall marketplace is like. And yes, it is a marketplace. What colleges are thriving, what colleges are struggling. And I have sense as to why.

I'll be surprised if this place around in 25 years. At least in its present form. Because I don't see how they get from here to a self-sustaining institution. I just don't get it I guess.

This was their application to the MA Board of Higher Education back in 2016. https://www.mass.edu/bhe/lib/documents/ ... %20AAC.pdf

Within 10 years there were projecting to have their own campus, have expanded to at least 20 faculty, and add new seven new majors in Civil Engineering, English, Education, Journalism, Mathematics, Physics, and Social Sciences. That is 2 years away. I wonder how close they are to achieving that objective. That is also kind of an odd mix.

[Grace]

I apologize for my lack of knowledge. But what does FOTW stand for?

[Josh]

Followers of the Way church, a congregation and denomination started by Finny Kiravilla.

Their doctrine is describe in Kiravilla’s book, “King Jesus Claims His Church”.