Sattler College Turmoil

[Judas Maccabeus]

Is it possible you've forgotten to account for the Mennonite Work Ethic® again?

…

Inconveniently, this particular Sattler graduate has never actually been a member of a Mennonite church, but I see no need to let that stop us from crediting all his success to his Mennoniteness. After all, like all people who work hard, he is descended from ethnic Mennonites.

Wow!… I guess the rest of us are all 2nd class if all people who work hard descend from ethnic Mennonites!

You have to realize that jahertz doesn't actually mean that - he was just mocking JM for his reference to Menno work ethic.

No, actually I was referring to the general avoidance of debt, except for land purchase that I see in our circles.

Beware of “fully funded “and be sure to read the fine print.

Also, student debt is an issue, my oldest daughter went to a Christian college,with rather low tuition, worked like mad, and graduated with almost no debt. It had to be that way, since she was headed to the mission field, hint, significant debt disqualifies you. Youngest went to a school affiliated with GW in dc. Given a full ride, but with conditions on years 2-4. Did not meet those conditions, wound up with a pile of debt, even after we did all we could. Moral of story, if you are given a full ride, read the fine print, and try to find out how many have the scholarship in year 2. You might change your mind.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Just to put this into context, I did some asking around, both my wife’s undergrad school (Towson University) and mine (University of Maryland) have had students admitted to the Med School at Hopkins. So it does not require an “elite “ education, just a good student, with good writing and interviewing skills.

Both of the above are state universities, and what I would call midrange, after all, we got into, and out of them.

Going to Hopkins also requires a willingness to take on LOTS of debt. It is far more pricey than in state tuition at your state university.

Has anybody claimed that Bryant was admitted to Johns Hopkins because of an “elite education,” or that he couldn’t have possibly gotten in from another undergraduate institution? I think most of us here are clear-minded about the fact that a variety of factors contributed to his acceptance: a good MCAT score (for which he largely credits his Sattler professors), professional connections (both at Sattler and an outside lab), ambition, eagerness, individual attention from faculty (mostly due to the staff:student ratio at Sattler), and luck. Bryant mentions all these elements in the interview, which anybody with a stable internet connection can access. He is honest about the fact that Sattler lacks some institutional resources (namely, research labs) that other schools have. He also explains how the school's physical location in Boston and connections to other facilities have afforded him laboratory opportunities, nonetheless.

Anybody who knows Bryant is aware that he is possessed of a great intellect and work ethic, and nobody has denied that these qualities contributed mightily to his success. I have no connection to Sattler and wouldn’t attend there myself for a variety of reasons. But some persons in this thread seem so thoroughly vexed by the idea that Sattler might have played a role in getting him to this point that they have resorted to some very silly arguments. It’s ok for people to have quality educational experiences at institutions for which you don’t hold any deep personal affection.

While it may be true that Johns Hopkins is a research-heavy institution, I imagine that Bryant is probably aware of this and will bravely bear that cross, since his love of research is likely his primary reason for choosing an MD-PhD program over a typical medical school route. I also don’t foresee the debt being an insurmountable obstacle, since the program is fully funded with a living stipend.

No. To quote myself:

“ Just to put this into context, I did some asking around, both my wife’s undergrad school (Towson University) and mine (University of Maryland) have had students admitted to the Med School at Hopkins. So it does not require an “elite “ education, just a good student, with good writing and interviewing skills.”

For us in Baltimore, Hopkins is a well known entity. We know it’s warts, maybe better than you would imagine. Worked with plenty of Hopkins grads during their residency. They are nothing special, and in my estimation, average. Best resident I ever worked with was an Einstein grad, that had done his first two years in Guadalajara. Go figure.

[jahertz]

Also, I’m impressed Bryant survived 4 years of Sattler without being a “member” anywhere.

Do you have a source for this assertion?

[jahertz]

Beware of “fully funded “and be sure to read the fine print.

Also, student debt is an issue, my oldest daughter went to a Christian college,with rather low tuition, worked like mad, and graduated with almost no debt. It had to be that way, since she was headed to the mission field, hint, significant debt disqualifies you. Youngest went to a school affiliated with GW in dc. Given a full ride, but with conditions on years 2-4. Did not meet those conditions, wound up with a pile of debt, even after we did all we could. Moral of story, if you are given a full ride, read the fine print, and try to find out how many have the scholarship in year 2. You might change your mind.

Right. In the case I referred to, I believe the fine print has been read. Per the school's usual policy, tuition is being offered for all four years up-front, with no need to reapply.

My understanding is that most medical schools including this one are moving away from traditional grading in an attempt to promote student collaboration and likely other reasons as well, so GPA is not really a thing at the graduate level, at least at this school.

Regardless, the student in question graduated Sattler with a 3.9 GPA and has already coauthored two or three papers that have been published in respected medical journals and collected a modest handful of citations. So I doubt anyone familiar with the situation is overly concerned that he'll crash out of the program due to inability to meet requirements.

He told me that after being accepted at Washington U a curious admissions officer quizzed him at some length about Sattler. The officer said his interest was piqued by Washington University having accepted not one but two highly qualified Sattler med students this year (out of a tiny total number of Sattler graduates), when the overwhelming majority of their students come from elite schools like Harvard.

I assume, of course, that the student corrected the officer's confusion, assured him the school he graduated from had next to nothing to do with the quality of his education, and explained about the Mennonite Work Ethic™.

[Soloist]

Beware of “fully funded “and be sure to read the fine print.

Also, student debt is an issue, my oldest daughter went to a Christian college,with rather low tuition, worked like mad, and graduated with almost no debt. It had to be that way, since she was headed to the mission field, hint, significant debt disqualifies you. Youngest went to a school affiliated with GW in dc. Given a full ride, but with conditions on years 2-4. Did not meet those conditions, wound up with a pile of debt, even after we did all we could. Moral of story, if you are given a full ride, read the fine print, and try to find out how many have the scholarship in year 2. You might change your mind.

Right. In the case I referred to, I believe the fine print has been read. Per the school's usual policy, tuition is being offered for all four years up-front, with no need to reapply.

My understanding is that most medical schools including this one are moving away from traditional grading in an attempt to promote student collaboration and likely other reasons as well, so GPA is not really a thing at the graduate level, at least at this school.

Regardless, the student in question graduated Sattler with a 3.9 GPA and has already coauthored two or three papers that have been published in respected medical journals and collected a modest handful of citations. So I doubt anyone familiar with the situation is overly concerned that he'll crash out of the program due to inability to meet requirements.

He told me that after being accepted at Washington U a curious admissions officer quizzed him at some length about Sattler. The officer said his interest was piqued by Washington University having accepted not one but two highly qualified Sattler med students this year (out of a tiny total number of Sattler graduates), when the overwhelming majority of their students come from elite schools like Harvard.

I assume, of course, that the student corrected the officer's confusion, assured him the school he graduated from had next to nothing to do with the quality of his education, and explained about the Mennonite Work Ethic™.

Wife: good on him for getting in, and I hope it goes well for him, but I would be a little, worried that if they are paying for everything upfront, and something does go wrong, it might end up with him being in debt. Like, for example, if he gets sick with pneumonia or injured. They might have some sort of way to handle that, but if you know the guy, you might want to make sure he double checks.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Beware of “fully funded “and be sure to read the fine print.

Also, student debt is an issue, my oldest daughter went to a Christian college,with rather low tuition, worked like mad, and graduated with almost no debt. It had to be that way, since she was headed to the mission field, hint, significant debt disqualifies you. Youngest went to a school affiliated with GW in dc. Given a full ride, but with conditions on years 2-4. Did not meet those conditions, wound up with a pile of debt, even after we did all we could. Moral of story, if you are given a full ride, read the fine print, and try to find out how many have the scholarship in year 2. You might change your mind.

Right. In the case I referred to, I believe the fine print has been read. Per the school's usual policy, tuition is being offered for all four years up-front, with no need to reapply.

My understanding is that most medical schools including this one are moving away from traditional grading in an attempt to promote student collaboration and likely other reasons as well, so GPA is not really a thing at the graduate level, at least at this school.

Regardless, the student in question graduated Sattler with a 3.9 GPA and has already coauthored two or three papers that have been published in respected medical journals and collected a modest handful of citations. So I doubt anyone familiar with the situation is overly concerned that he'll crash out of the program due to inability to meet requirements.

He told me that after being accepted at Washington U a curious admissions officer quizzed him at some length about Sattler. The officer said his interest was piqued by Washington University having accepted not one but two highly qualified Sattler med students this year (out of a tiny total number of Sattler graduates), when the overwhelming majority of their students come from elite schools like Harvard.

I assume, of course, that the student corrected the officer's confusion, assured him the school he graduated from had next to nothing to do with the quality of his education, and explained about the Mennonite Work Ethic™.

Better read the fine print really well. I have never heard of an absolute unconditional guarantee. I don’t think any reasonable institution would promise that, when there is always a possibility that a student will go off the rails. I suspect there is an out that someone is simply ignoring. Making a statement that the institution is promising four years of tuition, and essentially guaranteed graduation shows a shocking naïveté.

[Josh]

Also, I’m impressed Bryant survived 4 years of Sattler without being a “member” anywhere.

Do you have a source for this assertion?

Edit:

Inconveniently, this particular Sattler graduate has never actually been a member of a Mennonite church, but I see no need to let that stop us from crediting all his success to his Mennoniteness. After all, like all people who work hard, he is descended from ethnic Mennonites.

Perhaps he was a member in some other kind of church which claims not to be Mennonite?

[Josh]

Better read the fine print really well. I have never heard of an absolute unconditional guarantee. I don’t think any reasonable institution would promise that, when there is always a possibility that a student will go off the rails. I suspect there is an out that someone is simply ignoring. Making a statement that the institution is promising four years of tuition, and essentially guaranteed graduation shows a shocking naïveté.

The naïveté is indeed concerning, particularly how impressed this institution is doing what every college and university I attended or worked at (all 3 of them) managed to do, which would be “small Christian college”, “typical state university”, and “mid-tier Catholic college”. It isn’t anything particularly special.

My cousin’s husband managed to get a full ride to medical school. It came with a lot of expectations. He met them, but then again he already had a Ph.D in EE, so he understood academia’s shenanigans pretty well.

In any case, my biggest concern with Sattler is not academics, but that they promote false doctrine and have proven to be very divisive. Being in a one true church type of church myself, I can assure you that Sattler is burning a lot of bridges and if it and its denomination still existing 50 years, many people will regret the divisive choices that were made in the present.

[jahertz]

Right. In the case I referred to, I believe the fine print has been read. Per the school's usual policy, tuition is being offered for all four years up-front, with no need to reapply.

My understanding is that most medical schools including this one are moving away from traditional grading in an attempt to promote student collaboration and likely other reasons as well, so GPA is not really a thing at the graduate level, at least at this school.

Regardless, the student in question graduated Sattler with a 3.9 GPA and has already coauthored two or three papers that have been published in respected medical journals and collected a modest handful of citations. So I doubt anyone familiar with the situation is overly concerned that he'll crash out of the program due to inability to meet requirements.

He told me that after being accepted at Washington U a curious admissions officer quizzed him at some length about Sattler. The officer said his interest was piqued by Washington University having accepted not one but two highly qualified Sattler med students this year (out of a tiny total number of Sattler graduates), when the overwhelming majority of their students come from elite schools like Harvard.

I assume, of course, that the student corrected the officer's confusion, assured him the school he graduated from had next to nothing to do with the quality of his education, and explained about the Mennonite Work Ethic™.

Better read the fine print really well. I have never heard of an absolute unconditional guarantee. I don’t think any reasonable institution would promise that, when there is always a possibility that a student will go off the rails. I suspect there is an out that someone is simply ignoring. Making a statement that the institution is promising four years of tuition, and essentially guaranteed graduation shows a shocking naïveté.

Yes, believing in "absolute unconditional guarantees" and "essentially guaranteed graduation" from an elite medical school would suggest a "shocking naïveté."

So I trust you'll be relieved to find, upon a more careful review of the discussion, that aside from yourself no one has advanced or even mentioned such concepts.

[jahertz]

Being in a one true church type of church myself, I can assure you that Sattler is burning a lot of bridges and if it and its denomination still existing 50 years, many people will regret the divisive choices that were made in the present.

This remark makes me curious; I'd love to have you expand on it a bit if you care to.

By citing your One True Church experience, are you implying that your denomination was unwise to espouse that doctrine and FOTW should learn from their mistakes?

Or are you saying it's divisive to create yet another One True Church when a perfectly good One True Church already exists?