Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Ken]

After the battle of Stalingrad, it was over for the Germans in WWII. That is when the Germans lost the war.

A war is lost when replacements cannot keep up with losses. It is just a matter of time.

The war was actually lost the previous winter when they failed to take Moscow in the winter of 1940 and failed to disrupt the allies in the Battle of the Atlantic. And also losing the Battle of El Alamein which prevented the Germans from cutting off the Mediterranean and Suez Canal. The Germans lost more tanks at El Alamein than they did at Stalingrad. German war strategy (in both WW1 and WW2) depended on the war being fast and short. Once both wars became protracted quagmires the end was inevitable.

After the Germans stalled out in Russia, the Atlantic, and North Africa it was simply a matter of time since the allies could keep a steady and uninterrupted supply of equipment and supplies flowing across the Atlantic to Great Britain and across the Pacific to the USSR.

In Ukraine, the question is who represents the Germans? Is it the Russians who are the invading force with few allies? Or is it the Ukrainians who are the defending force with lots of allies?

And what does winning even look like for Russia at this point? Just a solidification of the gains that they have made so far to date? That certainly wasn't their war aims at the start of the war. They thought they were going to quickly conquer Kyiv and take over the nation, just like the Germans thought they were going to quickly take Moscow and take over that nation. Both were HUGE miscalculations.

[temporal1]

P.278:

April 2024

Ukraine Packed A Cessna-Style Plane With Explosives, Added Remote Controls And Kamikaze’d It Into A Russian Drone Factory 600 Miles Away / Ukrainian strikes on Russian industry just escalated
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... iles-away/

The most chilling part of this report is knowing HOW MANY Cessna and Cessna-Style aircraft exist, they don’t have to be new, stolen is ok, then imagining how “every ordinary terrorist” would salivate at the thought of transforming them into RC missiles.

Recall how some 9-11 terrorists took flying lessons, reportedly not caring about landing instruction.

Suicide is not required. With RC missiles, one may live to kill/destroy again.

Evil does not rest.

[RZehr]

After the Germans stalled out in Russia, the Atlantic, and North Africa it was simply a matter of time since the allies could keep a steady and uninterrupted supply of equipment and supplies flowing across the Atlantic to Great Britain and across the Pacific to the USSR.

Supply chain. Ukraine lurky-jerky allied supplies are anything but steady, reliable or sufficient or coordinated. On the other hand, China could single handedly out manufacture the west and keep Russia supplied. And, Russian supplies from Iran and N. Korea seemingly aren’t hindered by politics like the West is.

In Ukraine, the question is who represents the Germans? Is it the Russians who are the invading force with few allies? Or is it the Ukrainians who are the defending force with lots of allies?

I think Russia is the Germans. And maybe they will have the same results. But it is certainly premature to say they lost.

And what does winning even look like for Russia at this point? Just a solidification of the gains that they have made so far to date? That certainly wasn't their war aims at the start of the war. They thought they were going to quickly conquer Kyiv and take over the nation, just like the Germans thought they were going to quickly take Moscow and take over that nation. Both were HUGE miscalculations.

I’d say if Russia keeps the four oblasts that they have annexed, they get the win. They literally won those while Ukraine literally lost those. Sure, Russia might not have accomplished 100% of their wish list, but that doesn’t mean they lost.
Ukraine needs to take back everything they have lost since 2014 if they want to claim a win.

[Ken]

I’d say if Russia keeps the four oblasts that they have annexed, they get the win. They literally won those while Ukraine literally lost those. Sure, Russia might not have accomplished 100% of their wish list, but that doesn’t mean they lost.
Ukraine needs to take back everything they have lost since 2014 if they want to claim a win.

But the majority of that territory was already in Russian control since 2014 which is when the war really started. Crimea, and major parts of Luhansk and Donetsk have been under Russian control since 2014. For a while the world pretended that it was Russian separatists and not Russia but we know now it was just Russia.

So you have to measure gains from where the lines actually were in January 2022. Russia made some gains to create a land bridge between Crimea and Russia along southern Ukraine. And some incremental moving of the line along the east. But honestly they haven't really gained that much compared to where they already were in January 2020. Certainly nothing that could be called a victory given the immense cost in lives and treasure.

The stated objectives of Russia were to control Ukraine through occupation and subsequent puppet government like in Belarus. They had a whole government in exile ready to go. None of that has remotely happened. What has actually happened is that Ukrainians are vastly less likely to want to be within the Russian sphere today than they were in January 2022.

[JohnHurt]

So no sources you can quote, just your own opinions.

You aren’t interested in discussing. You are sourcing “facts” from crowd sourced map and Russian propaganda. No one is disputing Ukraine is having some bad trouble.

It’s painfully obvious that Russia failed their initial attack which if you look at the early propaganda from the sources you read wasn’t what was being peddled.
Look at the predictions of your sources last year and evaluate if they were correct.

I think you are right. I am beaten. I must give up. Apparently I am arguing against a type of "superior consciousness."

As my mom always said, "Never argue with someone that is omniscient, because no matter what you say, they can counter "No its not!", and you will always lose by finding you have wasted your time.

So, "you win!"

[JohnHurt]

After the battle of Stalingrad, it was over for the Germans in WWII. That is when the Germans lost the war.

A war is lost when replacements cannot keep up with losses. It is just a matter of time.

The war was actually lost the previous winter when they failed to take Moscow in the winter of 1940 and failed to disrupt the allies in the Battle of the Atlantic. And also losing the Battle of El Alamein which prevented the Germans from cutting off the Mediterranean and Suez Canal. The Germans lost more tanks at El Alamein than they did at Stalingrad. German war strategy (in both WW1 and WW2) depended on the war being fast and short. Once both wars became protracted quagmires the end was inevitable.

After the Germans stalled out in Russia, the Atlantic, and North Africa it was simply a matter of time since the allies could keep a steady and uninterrupted supply of equipment and supplies flowing across the Atlantic to Great Britain and across the Pacific to the USSR.

In Ukraine, the question is who represents the Germans? Is it the Russians who are the invading force with few allies? Or is it the Ukrainians who are the defending force with lots of allies?

And what does winning even look like for Russia at this point? Just a solidification of the gains that they have made so far to date? That certainly wasn't their war aims at the start of the war. They thought they were going to quickly conquer Kyiv and take over the nation, just like the Germans thought they were going to quickly take Moscow and take over that nation. Both were HUGE miscalculations.

Thanks, Ken.

The original encirclement of Kiev was to bring Zelensky to the negotiating table. When that failed, and Boris Johnson killed the negotiations, the Russians pulled all of their troops back to a prepared position, which is where they are now.

One of the goals of the Russians is to not hurt their fellow Slavic brothers in Ukraine. It was only the democratically elected government of Ukraine that was overthrown by a violent coup started by the USA in 2014, and not the people of Ukraine. So the Russians are not at war with their brother Slavs.

If you notice, this latest Russian attack on the electrical infrastructure happened as the weather is warming. If it had happened in January, many Ukrainian civilians would have died.

Kiev and Moscow, this is where Russia was founded. They call Ukraine "Little Russia". Belarus is "White Russia." Kiev and Moscow in the founding of Russia are like Philadelphia and Boston in the founding of America. They are all brothers. Russia does not want to annihilate Ukraine.

It is bad enough that the USA, CIA and Soros NGOs overthrew the democratically elected government of Ukraine in 2014, but then they got the "actual Nazis created by Bandera" from WWII now called the "Azov Battalion" to start waging genocide against the Russian speaking population of Eastern Ukraine. Why would they do that? To have your own Russian people attacked by Nazis from WWII, that had to make the Russians mad. Why would they do that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera

The Zelensky government plugged up the water line that sends fresh water to Crimea The Crimea has been part of Russia since the time of Catherine the Great. Crimea is dry. Denying water made the Crimea nearly unlivable. Why would they do that?

Ukraine wants the Crimea "back", which has never belonged to Ukraine. They want to take away Russia's only warm water port, which is on the Black Sea. Why would they do that?

It was the shelling of the unprotected Russian speaking villages in the Donbas by Ukrainian forces that started this war. Putin intervened to stop this shelling of the Russian people that live there. Why did Ukraine and the Azov Nazis shell the Russian speaking villages? Or should I say, why did the USA under Nuland and Blinken get the Zelensky government to shell the Russian villages? This did not happen under Trump.

If Russia wanted all of Ukraine for conquest, they could have blitzed the entire country in about 2 weeks. Instead, they pulled back to just protecting the Donbass and Luhansk - the Russian speaking sections of Ukraine that were being genocided by the USA led forces.

The Russians did not start this war. The USA did.

So here are my questions that no "Establishment Liberal" can answer:

1. Why does the United States under Nuland, Blinken, and OBiden want to wage a war against Russia?

2. Why is the United States encouraging the destruction of Ukraine, and the people of Ukraine, as some endless battlefield?

3. And why was there no "war in Ukraine" under Trump? Why is the Democratic Party solidly behind this war, but not Trump?

And here are my answers:

1. Russia is a Christian nation, and that is why the Democrats hate it. Russia is also an "ethno-state", secure in its own borders without millions of migrants streaming in, and they hate that too. The corrupt Democrats in the USA also want the vast mineral wealth (oil, gas, wood products, etc) that Russia has. Russia also has rejected Communism, and the current Democratic leadership of the USA hates that too.

2. When they take out Ukraine, they take out a large part of the world food supply. This goes along with banning natural gas to make chemical fertilizer. They are engineering a world-wide famine, and Ukraine's agriculture stands in the way, so Ukraine must be destroyed.

3. Trump was not under these "globalists" that attend the Council of Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg Group, and attend Bohemian Grove. As Newt Gingrinch said, "Trump has never participated in their rituals, so he is not accepted among them." Trump would have cut a deal with Putin and made everyone richer. These Democrat globalist scum do not want that, they want America to be a poor third world nation, and Russia too.

If you want to see the future for your children and grandchildren, look at Communist China, which is the "globalist" model for the USA and the world. They have a Social Credit System in China, which will be enacted here once the Central Bank Digital currencies are accepted. The people that run the USA want a dystopian future for your children, where their every action will be monitored, and either rewarded or punished. The war in Ukraine is just a step towards that. They need to weaken all of us to implement their control plan.

The only people that fight for the USA in a "all volunteer" army are conservatives from rural areas. The only big city liberals that ever fight in a war are the ones that are drafted, or did not run away to Canada or dodge the draft like Bill Clinton.

If they can start this war in Ukraine and kill a lot of our volunteer troops, they can get rid of a lot of conservative young men, and that helps win elections and changes the soul of this country for the worse. That is the other half of why they want this war.

I know we don't agree on this, but I always appreciate your answers.

John

[JohnHurt]

After the Germans stalled out in Russia, the Atlantic, and North Africa it was simply a matter of time since the allies could keep a steady and uninterrupted supply of equipment and supplies flowing across the Atlantic to Great Britain and across the Pacific to the USSR.

Supply chain. Ukraine lurky-jerky allied supplies are anything but steady, reliable or sufficient or coordinated. On the other hand, China could single handedly out manufacture the west and keep Russia supplied. And, Russian supplies from Iran and N. Korea seemingly aren’t hindered by politics like the West is.

In Ukraine, the question is who represents the Germans? Is it the Russians who are the invading force with few allies? Or is it the Ukrainians who are the defending force with lots of allies?

I think Russia is the Germans. And maybe they will have the same results. But it is certainly premature to say they lost.

And what does winning even look like for Russia at this point? Just a solidification of the gains that they have made so far to date? That certainly wasn't their war aims at the start of the war. They thought they were going to quickly conquer Kyiv and take over the nation, just like the Germans thought they were going to quickly take Moscow and take over that nation. Both were HUGE miscalculations.

I’d say if Russia keeps the four oblasts that they have annexed, they get the win. They literally won those while Ukraine literally lost those. Sure, Russia might not have accomplished 100% of their wish list, but that doesn’t mean they lost.
Ukraine needs to take back everything they have lost since 2014 if they want to claim a win.

It was a lack of manpower that defeated the Germans. The Russians pulled all of their troops from the Far East in time for the Battle of Moscow. Then they went through every hamlet and drafted every single man, and many women to fight the Germans. The Germans could not produce as many fighting men, and you can not just make new people in a factory. You have the manpower you started with, and the Germans ran out.

Ukraine has run out of Ukrainian men. Russia still has plenty of fighting men, and the terror attacks on Moscow increased Russian enlistments, just like Pearl Harbor did for the USA in WWII.

That is why Blinken is trying to get Ukraine into NATO, so that more military aged men from Europe and the USA can replace the nearly invisible Ukrainian soldier.

Without fighting men, all of the military equipment the West sends to Ukraine just ends up being captured by the Russians.

[Soloist]

I think you are right. I am beaten. I must give up. Apparently I am arguing against a type of "superior consciousness."

As my mom always said, "Never argue with someone that is omniscient, because no matter what you say, they can counter "No its not!", and you will always lose by finding you have wasted your time.

So, "you win!"

That makes sense.

I accept your robust surrender and appreciate you admitting you are wrong.

[Ken]

Thanks, Ken.

The original encirclement of Kiev was to bring Zelensky to the negotiating table. When that failed, and Boris Johnson killed the negotiations, the Russians pulled all of their troops back to a prepared position, which is where they are now.

One of the goals of the Russians is to not hurt their fellow Slavic brothers in Ukraine. It was only the democratically elected government of Ukraine that was overthrown by a violent coup started by the USA in 2014, and not the people of Ukraine. So the Russians are not at war with their brother Slavs.

I'll just respond to this one point (two actually).

The original encirclement of Kyiv was not intended to bring Zelenskyy to the bargaining table. It was intended to replace him and the entire Ukrainian government with a puppet government under the control of Moscow of the sort that they have now in Belarus. Russia had a puppet government in exile ready to go along with arrest/execution lists of every prominent person in the Ukrainian government. The didn't want to negotiate with Zelenskyy. They wanted to replace him.

Second, the current government of Ukraine came to power through democratic elections. As did the one before it. Zelynskyy was elected by large majorities of Ukrainians. He did nor come to power via any coup. Neither did his predecessor. So if Russia is citing events from 2014 that is a complete canard. In fact, Zelynskyy was most popular among the Russian speaking portion of the population in the east of Ukraine and least popular in the far western parts of Ukraine. Zelynskyy himself is a native Russian speaker and his natural constituency is the Russian-speaking parts of the population. It was Petro Poroshenko who he beat in 2019 that was the favored candidate of the Ukrainian-speaking population.

You are just repeating obvious Russian propaganda. You should probably broaden your sources of information. And the rest of what you wrote is too absurd to respond to point by point. Such as...

The Russians did not start this war. The USA did.

Riiiight...

Not even the Russians are trying to make such an absurd claim.

[NedFlanders]

After the battle of Stalingrad, it was over for the Germans in WWII. That is when the Germans lost the war.

A war is lost when replacements cannot keep up with losses. It is just a matter of time.

The war was actually lost the previous winter when they failed to take Moscow in the winter of 1940 and failed to disrupt the allies in the Battle of the Atlantic. And also losing the Battle of El Alamein which prevented the Germans from cutting off the Mediterranean and Suez Canal. The Germans lost more tanks at El Alamein than they did at Stalingrad. German war strategy (in both WW1 and WW2) depended on the war being fast and short. Once both wars became protracted quagmires the end was inevitable.

After the Germans stalled out in Russia, the Atlantic, and North Africa it was simply a matter of time since the allies could keep a steady and uninterrupted supply of equipment and supplies flowing across the Atlantic to Great Britain and across the Pacific to the USSR.

In Ukraine, the question is who represents the Germans? Is it the Russians who are the invading force with few allies? Or is it the Ukrainians who are the defending force with lots of allies?

And what does winning even look like for Russia at this point? Just a solidification of the gains that they have made so far to date? That certainly wasn't their war aims at the start of the war. They thought they were going to quickly conquer Kyiv and take over the nation, just like the Germans thought they were going to quickly take Moscow and take over that nation. Both were HUGE miscalculations.

Thanks, Ken.

The original encirclement of Kiev was to bring Zelensky to the negotiating table. When that failed, and Boris Johnson killed the negotiations, the Russians pulled all of their troops back to a prepared position, which is where they are now.

One of the goals of the Russians is to not hurt their fellow Slavic brothers in Ukraine. It was only the democratically elected government of Ukraine that was overthrown by a violent coup started by the USA in 2014, and not the people of Ukraine. So the Russians are not at war with their brother Slavs.

If you notice, this latest Russian attack on the electrical infrastructure happened as the weather is warming. If it had happened in January, many Ukrainian civilians would have died.

Kiev and Moscow, this is where Russia was founded. They call Ukraine "Little Russia". Belarus is "White Russia." Kiev and Moscow in the founding of Russia are like Philadelphia and Boston in the founding of America. They are all brothers. Russia does not want to annihilate Ukraine.

It is bad enough that the USA, CIA and Soros NGOs overthrew the democratically elected government of Ukraine in 2014, but then they got the "actual Nazis created by Bandera" from WWII now called the "Azov Battalion" to start waging genocide against the Russian speaking population of Eastern Ukraine. Why would they do that? To have your own Russian people attacked by Nazis from WWII, that had to make the Russians mad. Why would they do that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera

The Zelensky government plugged up the water line that sends fresh water to Crimea The Crimea has been part of Russia since the time of Catherine the Great. Crimea is dry. Denying water made the Crimea nearly unlivable. Why would they do that?

Ukraine wants the Crimea "back", which has never belonged to Ukraine. They want to take away Russia's only warm water port, which is on the Black Sea. Why would they do that?

It was the shelling of the unprotected Russian speaking villages in the Donbas by Ukrainian forces that started this war. Putin intervened to stop this shelling of the Russian people that live there. Why did Ukraine and the Azov Nazis shell the Russian speaking villages? Or should I say, why did the USA under Nuland and Blinken get the Zelensky government to shell the Russian villages? This did not happen under Trump.

If Russia wanted all of Ukraine for conquest, they could have blitzed the entire country in about 2 weeks. Instead, they pulled back to just protecting the Donbass and Luhansk - the Russian speaking sections of Ukraine that were being genocided by the USA led forces.

The Russians did not start this war. The USA did.

So here are my questions that no "Establishment Liberal" can answer:

1. Why does the United States under Nuland, Blinken, and OBiden want to wage a war against Russia?

2. Why is the United States encouraging the destruction of Ukraine, and the people of Ukraine, as some endless battlefield?

3. And why was there no "war in Ukraine" under Trump? Why is the Democratic Party solidly behind this war, but not Trump?

And here are my answers:

1. Russia is a Christian nation, and that is why the Democrats hate it. Russia is also an "ethno-state", secure in its own borders without millions of migrants streaming in, and they hate that too. The corrupt Democrats in the USA also want the vast mineral wealth (oil, gas, wood products, etc) that Russia has. Russia also has rejected Communism, and the current Democratic leadership of the USA hates that too.

2. When they take out Ukraine, they take out a large part of the world food supply. This goes along with banning natural gas to make chemical fertilizer. They are engineering a world-wide famine, and Ukraine's agriculture stands in the way, so Ukraine must be destroyed.

3. Trump was not under these "globalists" that attend the Council of Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg Group, and attend Bohemian Grove. As Newt Gingrinch said, "Trump has never participated in their rituals, so he is not accepted among them." Trump would have cut a deal with Putin and made everyone richer. These Democrat globalist scum do not want that, they want America to be a poor third world nation, and Russia too.

If you want to see the future for your children and grandchildren, look at Communist China, which is the "globalist" model for the USA and the world. They have a Social Credit System in China, which will be enacted here once the Central Bank Digital currencies are accepted. The people that run the USA want a dystopian future for your children, where their every action will be monitored, and either rewarded or punished. The war in Ukraine is just a step towards that. They need to weaken all of us to implement their control plan.

The only people that fight for the USA in a "all volunteer" army are conservatives from rural areas. The only big city liberals that ever fight in a war are the ones that are drafted, or did not run away to Canada or dodge the draft like Bill Clinton.

If they can start this war in Ukraine and kill a lot of our volunteer troops, they can get rid of a lot of conservative young men, and that helps win elections and changes the soul of this country for the worse. That is the other half of why they want this war.

I know we don't agree on this, but I always appreciate your answers.

John

I think this is deeper information than most people are willing to put the time into researching and also not what many want to believe. But, regardless, it is one of the most accurate descriptions of what I think is actually going on.