Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Josh]

This is a rather biased headline. When I was growing up, the Ukraine was just part of the USSR. Lenin divided the USSR into different states and one of them was the Ukrainian SSR, or “ УССР”. “Ukraine” simply means “border”. It was the borderlands of Russia with non-Russian countries.

Going back to the 1800s, many Mennonites settled in that area. They were invited by the Empress of Russia, Catherine the Great. We now call these people “Russian Mennonites”. They were never called “Ukrainian Mennonites”, because “Ukraine” as an independent country didn’t exist back then.

Looking to the present day, quite a few people in the Ukraine prefer to be part of Russia and democratically expressed their desire to be, starting in Crimea, and now also in the east. Instead of supporting the rights of self determination and democracy, the West and America decided not to recognise this.

I am very disturbed now to see many Republicans and right wing evangelicals openly calling for war. The Ukraine and Russia are not America’s sphere of influence and we need to stay out of border disputes there. We should not have interfered in the Ukraine’s elections in 2014. Doing so caused many people there to lose faith in their own democracy and prefer to ally with Russia instead.

Furthermore, entangling ourselves in these disputes does nothing except strengthen Putin’s political standing at home. This is a popular move in Russia. America fighting it simply means Putin can distract Russians from domestic issues. Why get involved and do this?

This is also a failure of American diplomacy. Instead of helping broker a compromise between the American-controlled client state of the Ukraine and Russia, American diplomacy offered conflict and threats. The bluff has been called. We need American leaders who can use diplomacy effectively, like Reagan did with Gorbachev.

[Josh]

Horrific.

This is nationalist propaganda. I wouldn’t go around repeating it. (And America isn’t exactly innocent of doing the exact same thing.)

I would be very wary of any voices that want to stir up hatred and make going to war with Russia seem like a good idea.

[Josh]

Generally I find our government to be fear mongering, but this time they called it right. I expect the initial forces of Ukraine to be swept aside in under a week and then we will see how they plan to conduct their regime change without occupation.

Personally, I don't think the west will have the will to engage in a war with Russia, I think its going to be a proxy war and continue the supposed ended cold war.

Putin’s stated goal is “de-nazification”. Unfortunately, a lot of Ukrainian nationalism is run by neo-Nazis. I cannot fathom why the West decided to try to form an alliance with neo-Nazis.

[Ken]

Putin seems bound and determined to go down in history as the successor to Hitler and Stalin in terms of setting Europe on fire.

[temporal1]

i’m not aware of anyone calling for war (i prefer not to be enlightened).
but, if conservatives call for it, that might be great. libs would automatically reject it.

o.wait. until they’re in office. then it’s for the best.

[Josh]

i’m not aware of anyone calling for war (i prefer not to be enlightened).
but, if conservatives call for it, that might be great. libs would automatically reject it.

o.wait. until they’re in office. then it’s for the best.

Liberals and conservatives are united on this one.

[Josh]

Putin seems bound and determined to go down in history as the successor to Hitler and Stalin in terms of setting Europe on fire.

Could you explain to me how exactly Russia asserting historic territorial claims with the consent of the people who live there is the same as “Hitler” - who actually DID invade the Ukraine?

At issue here is quite a few people in this territory want to be part of Russia. Russia has said they’re going to defend those people’s choice. The Ukrainian government decided not to back off, even though they have absolutely no chance at winning a military conflict. And the West failed to help the situation diplomatically.

[temporal1]

Josh:
.. diplomacy ..

that seems to be a forgotten word, esp in current lib politics. Trudeau is a recent and important example. on the world’s stage.

[mike]

Putin seems bound and determined to go down in history as the successor to Hitler and Stalin in terms of setting Europe on fire.

Even if the Ukrainian military is quickly overwhelmed or capitulates soon, what has happened will foment anti-Russian sentiment for generations among European nations.

[temporal1]

i’m not aware of anyone calling for war (i prefer not to be enlightened).
but, if conservatives call for it, that might be great. libs would automatically reject it.

o.wait. until they’re in office. then it’s for the best.

Liberals and conservatives are united on this one.

when it involves the MIC, Congress is typically united.