Poll: Freedom Convoy and Related Protests

[Signtist]

So the arguments being made in our House of Cimmons that these guys were violent insurrectionists with a plan to threaten our national security are either false, or we don't take such threats seriously enough to charge them, only seriously enough to argue for the Emergency Measures. It really can't go both ways. So pardon my confusion.

[Ken]

So the arguments being made in our House of Cimmons that these guys were violent insurrectionists with a plan to threaten our national security are either false, or we don't take such threats seriously enough to charge them, only seriously enough to argue for the Emergency Measures. It really can't go both ways. So pardon my confusion.

Well, who made such claims, what exactly did they say, and are they in a position to enforce them?

Fringe politicians make ridiculous claims all the time but aren't usually in any position of authority to enforce them. Which is frankly a good thing. Here in the US we have plenty of politicians who are constantly spouting ridiculous nonsense. It comes with the territory. Thankfully we actually have nonpartisan professional prosecutors who's job it is to make such decisions and not loudmouth politicians.

[Signtist]

Only Trudeau. Maybe he's a fringe politician.

The Act sets out four kinds of emergencies:

Public welfare emergency
Public order emergency
International emergency
War emergency

The federal government asserts in its Order in Council that this is a public order emergency, which the Act defines as an emergency so serious it is a “national emergency” and that it “seriously threatens” the ability of the government to preserve the sovereignty, security, and territorial integrity of Canada.

[Ken]

Only Trudeau. Maybe he's a fringe politician.

The Act sets out four kinds of emergencies:

Public welfare emergency
Public order emergency
International emergency
War emergency

The federal government asserts in its Order in Council that this is a public order emergency, which the Act defines as an emergency so serious it is a “national emergency” and that it “seriously threatens” the ability of the government to preserve the sovereignty, security, and territorial integrity of Canada.

I don't know enough about the legal workings of Canada. But presumably there is some form of judicial review where acts of the executive branch or government can be challenged in court and overturned by the Supreme Court of Canada if they are found to be without legitimate basis. Much like Trump's Muslim Ban was challenged and overturned by the US Supreme Court. Or Biden's OSHA vaccine mandate.

[Signtist]

Except for he gets to use the act immediately. Unless stricken down it is in effect for 30 days.

My point was, Trudeau believes these guys to be a threat to national security, or else he can't meet the threshold for enacting these powers. But whoever is arresting (some of) them, won't even go to the bother of charging them. If they are a threat to National security, they ought not to be free,much less let of without charges being laid.

[JimFoxvog]

If you were a tow truck driver, how would you apply Jesus's teachings to go 2 miles? or would this be an active participant with the sword of the government requiring refusal to participate even if it meant your life?

In Jesus' time, it was the Roman soldiers who could ask someone to carry their pack one mile, and Jesus said to go two. So the question should be to the truck driver who is about to be towed by a government agent.

[barnhart]

If you were a tow truck driver, how would you apply Jesus's teachings to go 2 miles? or would this be an active participant with the sword of the government requiring refusal to participate even if it meant your life?

In Jesus' time, it was the Roman soldiers who could ask someone to carry their pack one mile, and Jesus said to go two. So the question should be to the truck driver who is about to be towed by a government agent.

Or even extra cooperation with onerous government mandates?

[JimFoxvog]

If you were a tow truck driver, how would you apply Jesus's teachings to go 2 miles? or would this be an active participant with the sword of the government requiring refusal to participate even if it meant your life?

In Jesus' time, it was the Roman soldiers who could ask someone to carry their pack one mile, and Jesus said to go two. So the question should be to the truck driver who is about to be towed by a government agent.

Or even extra cooperation with onerous government mandates?

I don't like onerous government mandates, so don't like the implications, but I think this is closer to what Jesus was talking about.

[Ken]

Except for he gets to use the act immediately. Unless stricken down it is in effect for 30 days.

My point was, Trudeau believes these guys to be a threat to national security, or else he can't meet the threshold for enacting these powers. But whoever is arresting (some of) them, won't even go to the bother of charging them. If they are a threat to National security, they ought not to be free,much less let of without charges being laid.

I’m honestly not following this closely enough to have an opinion as to the legitimacy of the government’s actions. But emergency powers are something authorized by laws put into place by democratic governments and so not technically undemocratic. They might be authoritarian, but still democratic. Here in the US the president is granted immense powers though a wide variety of laws and constitutional provisions that were all decided on and implemented in a democratic fashion.

As for the national security issue. I could envision an argument that having a large ongoing protest that shuts down the seat of government or international trade routes is in itself a threat to national security without any one specific person necessarily being an individual threat and meriting individual arrest and prosecution. In other words, it is the cumulative effect of 10,000 people that is the national security threat, not a specific plot or conspiracy or threat from any one specific person.

[Ernie]

So it seems some protest organizers understood they were doing things illegally. Other organizers seemed to have duped their followers.

https://www.theguardian.com/discover-co ... u-truckers

Marazzo accused Trudeau of heading up a “tyrannical regime” and said protesters were being punished for bearing Canadian flags.
“What laws have we broken? They are parking infractions,” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... r-blockade

Even as police threatened to break up the blockades and the prime minister, Trudeau, invoked the Emergencies Act, many protesters were unfazed, arguing police didn’t have the authority to break up the protests. Key influencers in the movement, including Pat King, repeatedly reinforced this message.
“King told protesters the warnings from police weren’t official because they didn’t have signatures on them or that the city didn’t have a police chief so no one could give the order,” said Kurt Phillips of the Canadian Anti-Hate Network. “And he was telling this to people who don’t really understand how government works.”

Still, even as police swarmed the area on Friday, many protesters expressed disbelief that arrests were possible.
“You can’t do this. You can’t do this. You have no right,” pleaded one woman as a line of police pushed towards a blockade on Rideau Street. Another broke down in tears as protesters were hauled off.
As footage of arrests and scuffles spread, on the secure-messaging site Telegram groups supporting the truckers reacted with shock and skepticism.

A number of police forces, including the Ottawa city police, the Ontario provincial police, the Royal Canadian Mounted police and the Sûreté du Québec, participated in the operation to clear the streets.

Others were told, often by protest leaders and organizers, the police supported their movement.

“They honestly believe that all of Canada supports them. And so it’s shocking to them to learn they aren’t seen as heroes,” said Carmen Celestini, a postdoctoral fellow with the Disinformation Project at Simon Fraser University, adding that many believed police officers were on their side.

“And now they’ve realized that’s not true.”

Police arrested nearly all protest leaders who called on demonstrators to “hold the line”.

Benjamin Dichter, a protest leader, called on supporters to stand their ground but left Ottawa before he could be arrested. His decision prompted one Telegram user to call him a “globalist operative subverting the freedom convoy”.

“Influential figures were really pushing disinformation to keep the protesters there,” said Celestini.

“But even though they told supporters to ‘hold the line’, they really didn’t have a plan for what to do when arrests occurred. The leaders knew that they would have an escape plan and that they’d be OK. But their decision to leaving their supporters out there to face the consequences helps you see their character.”