Poll: Freedom Convoy and Related Protests

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.

Choose all that apply:

1. I support vaccine mandates
6
7%
2. I'm not in favor of vaccine mandates and I do not support the Freedom Convoy. There are much better ways to appeal for clemency from the government.
11
13%
3. I support the Freedom Convoy.
11
13%
4. I would take food to the protestors if I had a chance to do so.
13
15%
5. I would be glad to take fuel to the truckers if it was not illegal.
8
9%
6. I would be glad to take fuel to the truckers if I could, even if it was illegal.
4
5%
7. If I lived in Ottawa and a trucker came to my door wanting something to eat, I would feed him. If he was protesting outside my door, I would not feed him unless he threatened me. I would appeal with the words of John the Baptist to do violence to no man. If he was protesting downtown, I would not take food to him.
11
13%
8. I do not think Ottawa residents and residents in other cities with "freedom" protests should need to put up with loud horn honking and harassment about wearing masks when they walk the streets. They should be able to go about their business without needing to take flack or be harassed due to the decisions of their government.
10
11%
9. Professing Christians who support the Freedom Convoy should think about the freedoms the protestors have been taking away from the residents of Ottawa and other cities, and they should repent of their support and their actions.
7
8%
10. Other
7
8%
 
Total votes: 88

HondurasKeiser
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Re: Poll: Freedom Convoy and Related Protests

Post by HondurasKeiser »

HondurasKeiser wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:08 pm N.S. Lyons has a kind of Marxian analysis of the truckers vs. Trudeau (though I doubt he'd like the idea that his is a Marxian one) over at his substack. I found it quite interesting. He quotes my favorite social-critic/crank, the late Christopher Lasch; so I guess he had me at "elites".
In that essay, I noted how from the perspective of those with the most wealth and power, as well as the technocratic managers and the intelligentsia (our “priestly class, keepers of the Gnosis [Knowledge]”), digital technology and global networks seem to have created “an unprecedented opportunity for Theory to wrest control from recalcitrant nature, for liquid narrative to triumph over mundanely static reality, and for all the corrupt traditional bonds of the world to be severed, its atoms reconfigured in a more correct and desirable manner.”

In this mostly subconscious vision of “Luxury Gnosticism,” the “middle and lower classes can then be sold dispossession and disembodiment as liberation, while those as yet ‘essential’ working classes who still cling distastefully to the physical world can mostly be ignored until the day they can be successfully automated out of existence.”

I also quoted a passage from the late Christopher Lasch’s book The Revolt of the Elites that is worth repeating here:

"The thinking classes are fatally removed from the physical side of life… Their only relation to productive labor is that of consumers. They have no experience of making anything substantial or enduring. They live in a world of abstractions and images, a simulated world that consists of computerized models of reality – “hyperreality,” as it’s been called – as distinguished from the palatable, immediate, physical reality inhabited by ordinary men and women. Their belief in “social construction of reality” – the central dogma of postmodernist thought – reflects the experience of living in an artificial environment from which everything that resists human control (unavoidably, everything familiar and reassuring as well) has been rigorously excluded. Control has become their obsession. In their drive to insulate themselves against risk and contingency – against the unpredictable hazards that afflict human life – the thinking classes have seceded not just from the common world around them but from reality itself."...

The first is a class that has been a part of human civilization for a really long time. These are the people who work primarily in the real, physical world. Maybe they work directly with their hands, like a carpenter, or a mechanic, or a farmer. Or maybe they are only a step away: they own or manage a business where they organize and direct employees who work with their hands, and buy or sell or move things around in the real world. Like a transport logistics company, maybe. This class necessarily works in a physical location, or they own or operate physical assets that are central to their trade.

The second class is different. It is, relatively speaking, a new civilizational innovation (at least in numbering more than a handful of people). This group is the “thinking classes” Lasch was writing about above. They don’t interact much with the physical world directly; they are handlers of knowledge. They work with information, which might be digital or analog, numerical or narrative. But in all cases it exists at a level of abstraction from the real world. Manipulation and distribution of this information can influence the real world, but only through informational chains that pass directives to agents that can themselves act in the physical world – a bit like a software program that sends commands to a robot arm on an assembly line. To facilitate this, they build and manage abstract institutions and systems of organizational communication as a means of control. Individuals in this class usually occupy middle links in these informational chains, in which neither the inputs nor outputs of their role has any direct relationship with or impact on the physical world. They are informational middlemen. This class can therefore do their job almost entirely from a laptop, by email or a virtual Zoom meeting, and has recently realized they don’t even need to be sitting in an office cubicle while they do it.

For our purposes here, let’s call these two classes the Physicals and the Virtuals, respectively.

When considering the causes and character of the current protest, and the response to it, I would say the divide between Physicals and Virtuals is by far the most relevant frame of analysis available. In fact I’d say this is among the most significant divides in all of Western politics today...

The great Honkening of 2022 has already been revelatory to people around the world. It is the climax of a process in which all the divides in society, including between the “Physicals” and “Virtuals” I’ve described here, have been revealed by the pandemic and governments’ responses. At the same time, the pandemic served to clarify the continued reliance of the Virtual class on “essential workers.” The revelation of the exceptional vulnerability of modern supply chains has demonstrated very clearly to everyone paying attention that the Physicals still possess tremendous power of their own as long as they are able to act in unity and solidarity – or as many signs at the protests have pointed out to the Virtuals: “no truckers, no food.”

In this sense the Freedom Convoy has already become the most successful labor movement in decades, awakening a genuine new “class consciousness” (as a Marxist would put it) in the minds of the reality-based “working class.” And it is notable that this has already become a transnational phenomenon, with the convoy protests spreading like wildfire around the globe precisely because the exact same divide now exists in so many developed countries, where the Virtual ruling class has everywhere overreached with similarly hubris.
This morning I read the following take on the managerial society that has become entrenched in Canada and it seemed to dove-tail with the earlier essay I had posted from N.S. Lyons. I wonder if our Canadian posters here see some truth in what Mr. Pinkoski writes?
The crisis had its origins in material conditions unique to Canada. A combination of elite overproduction and Canada’s position in the shadow of the United States has produced an ideologically supercharged managerial class that has accelerated the adoption of a new kind of emergency politics.

The managerial class in Canada is much more powerful than that in the U.S., for several reasons. First, the managerial class makes up a much larger share of Canada’s population, because far more Canadians go to college. Whereas 51.9 percent of Americans between the ages of 25–34 have tertiary education, in Canada it is almost 65 percent. While America’s elites are decentralized (Wall Street and Silicon Valley are very different), Canada’s elites are concentrated in the Laurentian corridor of Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal. And there is a revolving door between the managerial institutions. Since Lester Pearson, prime minister from 1963 to 1968, every leader of the Liberal party has begun his career as either a civil servant, academic, professional party hack, Bay Street lawyer, or leader of one of Canada’s Laurentian “continental corporations”—or as the son of one of these. These institutions receive generous federal funding. So does the Canadian media, which is now financially dependent on the federal government. Because these institutions are regionally concentrated and rely on symbiotic relationships with one another, Canada’s managerial classes hold hegemonic political power.
Canada’s vassalage to the U.S. intensifies the harmful effects of this situation. Once Canada surrendered its British character and integrated itself into the American empire, it became part of the continental system of elite overproduction. Ambitious Canadians seeking the top-tier education that will gain them elite status quickly discover that Canada’s universities are, as one professor once told me, “frustratingly above-average.” The most talented young Canadians therefore tend to jump ship and move to the U.S. The sine qua non for their success is mastering the American empire’s language, which is the language of liberalism. Every ambitious Canadian learns that to ascend, you must talk like American liberal elites. The Canadians who become fluent succeed: They get a top-tier U.S. degree and join the prestigious American networks. By and large, these people do not then want to move back to the imperial backwater. The few who do—such as former Liberal party leader Michael Ignatieff, who taught at Harvard, and the current Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland, who studied at Harvard and married a New York Times reporter—return home confident that they will be the big fish in the small pond. Hence Canada suffers a protracted brain drain to the U.S.

The most pernicious consequence for Canada is the influence of the large number of would-be elites who don’t quite make it. They are a case study in the “Janissary” phenomenon. In the Ottoman Empire, Janissaries were trained to be fanatically loyal to the sultan, and served as imperial shock troops. But they could never rule the empire and were condemned to be second-tier elites. Eventually, when they became too restless, the sultan imprisoned and executed them. Hoping to join the imperial elites, Canadian Janissaries demonstrate their unflinching loyalty to the imperial mission. They are good enough to advance, but not all the way. Their passion for the imperial mission persists even though, excluded from the highest elite circles, they know far less about that mission than they realize. Canada also attracts second-tier American elites. While they cannot ascend into the top-tier elite at home, they do in Canada. They bring their devotion to the liberal mission with them, skewing the institutions they run. Draft-dodgers and their children have been particularly influential.

These losers in the continental intra-elite competitive game are the people running the feebler Canadian counterparts of prestigious American institutions. Because the upper tiers of Canadian society have been saturated with them for several generations, standards have dropped. But Canadian elites have not noticed. Lacking self-awareness, they become more parochial than the unenlightened classes they scorn. As one would expect of Janissaries, Canadian elites are still determined to sound like their American counterparts. Consequently, they punch down with more zeal. Imagine a national elite composed of less successful versions of Sarah Jeong: They all mock the lower-class whites, but do not get jobs at the New York Times. That’s Canada’s ruling class.

This dynamic of surplus mid-level managers, with double the zealotry and mediocrity, has played out in the pandemic policy that provoked the protests, and set the tone for the government’s decision to enact a state of emergency. COVID restrictions are popular with the managerial classes because safetyist rhetoric is catnip to them. Sheltered from genuine hardship—job insecurity, physical danger, etc.—they live in fear of anything that threatens their comfort and sense of control. It is therefore unsurprising that Canada, dominated by managers, suffered the most draconian COVID restrictions in North America. And because the managerial class is huge and directs the media narrative, even the harshest restrictions have enjoyed a broad base of support. Canadian politicians often adopted harsher COVID restrictions than those recommended by their own scientific advisers. Whether it was mixing vaccine doses, distributing expired stockpiles, or attempting to steal from the global vaccine supply, Canada routinely defied the WHO. But national media directed Canadian attention elsewhere.
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joey_the_ox
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Re: Poll: Freedom Convoy and Related Protests

Post by joey_the_ox »

From the Lyons essay quoting Lasch:
"The thinking classes are fatally removed from the physical side of life… Their only relation to productive labor is that of consumers. They have no experience of making anything substantial or enduring. They live in a world of abstractions and images, a simulated world that consists of computerized models of reality – “hyperreality,” as it’s been called – as distinguished from the palatable, immediate, physical reality inhabited by ordinary men and women.
There was an interesting post by Tanner Greer that relates this to the actions of an American diplomat at the United States Embassy in Kiev (I won't copy the title so as not to offend anyone):
The internet operates on its own logic. In the world of Twitter, Twitch and Tiktok, fame is the aim and exposure the goal. The influence of an influencer is measured in retweets, reblogs, and runaway memes. The internet-addled man glories in the hashtag that takes on its own life; he revels in the image that entire subcultures make their own. His battleground is “the discourse.” In this ethereal realm of images and threads, prestige comes from being clever, being funny, and being first. One’s internet enemies are to be cancelled where possible, and lampooned when not. The social media addict knows victory when the right words are used by the right sorts.

But not all enemies can be cancelled. Not all fights can be won through clever retweets. The world of flesh and blood does not always work like the world of memes and tweets. Those given responsibility in the world of physical things court disaster when they confuse internet politics with the real thing.
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Re: Poll: Freedom Convoy and Related Protests

Post by Josh »

joey_the_ox wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:00 am From the Lyons essay quoting Lasch:
"The thinking classes are fatally removed from the physical side of life… Their only relation to productive labor is that of consumers. They have no experience of making anything substantial or enduring. They live in a world of abstractions and images, a simulated world that consists of computerized models of reality – “hyperreality,” as it’s been called – as distinguished from the palatable, immediate, physical reality inhabited by ordinary men and women.
There was an interesting post by Tanner Greer that relates this to the actions of an American diplomat at the United States Embassy in Kiev (I won't copy the title so as not to offend anyone):
The internet operates on its own logic. In the world of Twitter, Twitch and Tiktok, fame is the aim and exposure the goal. The influence of an influencer is measured in retweets, reblogs, and runaway memes. The internet-addled man glories in the hashtag that takes on its own life; he revels in the image that entire subcultures make their own. His battleground is “the discourse.” In this ethereal realm of images and threads, prestige comes from being clever, being funny, and being first. One’s internet enemies are to be cancelled where possible, and lampooned when not. The social media addict knows victory when the right words are used by the right sorts.

But not all enemies can be cancelled. Not all fights can be won through clever retweets. The world of flesh and blood does not always work like the world of memes and tweets. Those given responsibility in the world of physical things court disaster when they confuse internet politics with the real thing.
This is worth noting in the sense of how much the "cancel culture" has infected the U.S. and European diplomatic corps, whose reaction to Russia was to issue sanctions, which is the same kind of thinking as "cancelling" someone by getting their Twitter account suspended or getting the fired from their job. Issuing "sanctions" against members of parliament in Russia who voted for something? Exactly what does this accomplish?

But it turns out that "cancel culture" doesn't work well against a well-resourced entity that doesn't exist under your own authority structure. It is embarrassing to see diplomacy replaced by memes that are not funny. I fear there was no sense of irony at all for the person who thought it was a real scuzz to point out that Moscow was undeveloped in the 12th century without giving thought to Washington, D.C.'s state of development. There is indeed a place for mockery in diplomacy, but this wasn't it.
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Re: Poll: Freedom Convoy and Related Protests

Post by Soloist »

Ernie wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:01 am
Soloist wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:48 am
Ernie wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:24 am Yes.
At what point will the truth be spoken about? or is this something you believe you have already done?
I have done so numerous times on MN. I do so in personal conversations when I have the opportunity.
so am I to take from this that you will not publish anything that actually is informative of the use of fetal cells in Plain News? In communication with you and from what I have heard, you generally have argued against someone taking a stance of fetal cell derived vaccines. Your articles brush over the fetal cells as not important and my assessment is you have decided getting Anabaptists vaccinated is more important then actually encouraging someone to take a stance against evil.
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HondurasKeiser
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Re: Poll: Freedom Convoy and Related Protests

Post by HondurasKeiser »

joey_the_ox wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:00 am There was an interesting post by Tanner Greer that relates this to the actions of an American diplomat at the United States Embassy in Kiev (I won't copy the title so as not to offend anyone):
The internet operates on its own logic. In the world of Twitter, Twitch and Tiktok, fame is the aim and exposure the goal. The influence of an influencer is measured in retweets, reblogs, and runaway memes. The internet-addled man glories in the hashtag that takes on its own life; he revels in the image that entire subcultures make their own. His battleground is “the discourse.” In this ethereal realm of images and threads, prestige comes from being clever, being funny, and being first. One’s internet enemies are to be cancelled where possible, and lampooned when not. The social media addict knows victory when the right words are used by the right sorts.

But not all enemies can be cancelled. Not all fights can be won through clever retweets. The world of flesh and blood does not always work like the world of memes and tweets. Those given responsibility in the world of physical things court disaster when they confuse internet politics with the real thing.
This is deeply curious to me - my final year philosophy students were most taken by the twitter feeds of official Ukrainian institutions sending out memes mocking the Russians. These are elite Honduran "virtuals" that were more tuned into a 'meme-war' than actual war. I cannot understand fully, what is going on.
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Ken
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Re: Poll: Freedom Convoy and Related Protests

Post by Ken »

HondurasKeiser wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:07 pm
joey_the_ox wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:00 am There was an interesting post by Tanner Greer that relates this to the actions of an American diplomat at the United States Embassy in Kiev (I won't copy the title so as not to offend anyone):
The internet operates on its own logic. In the world of Twitter, Twitch and Tiktok, fame is the aim and exposure the goal. The influence of an influencer is measured in retweets, reblogs, and runaway memes. The internet-addled man glories in the hashtag that takes on its own life; he revels in the image that entire subcultures make their own. His battleground is “the discourse.” In this ethereal realm of images and threads, prestige comes from being clever, being funny, and being first. One’s internet enemies are to be cancelled where possible, and lampooned when not. The social media addict knows victory when the right words are used by the right sorts.

But not all enemies can be cancelled. Not all fights can be won through clever retweets. The world of flesh and blood does not always work like the world of memes and tweets. Those given responsibility in the world of physical things court disaster when they confuse internet politics with the real thing.
This is deeply curious to me - my final year philosophy students were most taken by the twitter feeds of official Ukrainian institutions sending out memes mocking the Russians. These are elite Honduran "virtuals" that were more tuned into a 'meme-war' than actual war. I cannot understand fully, what is going on.
I think social media is more appealing and compelling to the young than traditional mainstream media sources because twitter and other social media organs are forms of unfiltered 2-way communication rather than top-down 1-way communication. It is easier and more fun to engage in a twitter thread than a static NYT article or CNN/Fox News broadcast. And it is the medium that many of them are already on for their personal social lives.
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Ernie
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Re: Poll: Freedom Convoy and Related Protests

Post by Ernie »

Soloist wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:56 ammy assessment is you have decided getting Anabaptists vaccinated is more important then actually encouraging someone to take a stance against evil.
Ever since the beginning of Covid, I've repeatedly said her on MN and elsewhere that I do not encourage people to get vaccinated, and I am fine with people taking a stance against evil. So the assessment here in incorrect.
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Re: Poll: Freedom Convoy and Related Protests

Post by Ernie »

I see that I completely missed the Rolling Thunder convoy/protest in Ottawa April 29-May 1, 2022.

I was glad to see that the organizers of this protest encouraged protestors to be law abiding.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8796499/roll ... torcycles/
A statement on the “Rolling Thunder” website attributed to organizer Neil Sheard says the protesters plan to leave on Sunday, and they do not support “blockades, obstruction of police performing their duties, damage to property or hate and vitriol directed to the residents of Ottawa.”
And a question for Dan Z,
Dan Z wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:29 am
Ernie wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:07 am
Dan Z wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:52 am Would it be a better characterization to say that it is a protest of government overreach?
It started out as "anti-mandate", but yes, I think it evolved into a protest of government overreach.
Governments the world around have a tendency to expand their power. It seems like in healthy democracies (like Canada), every once in a while the people need to rise up to remind the government that they are taking more power than they rightly should. In this regard, what's happening in Canada seems like a good thing - a little creative angst to help Ottowa rethink the extent of its reach.
So you thought that what was happening in Ottowa was a good thing. What is your answer or response to the businessmen who lost a lot of money due to the convoy and related protests? (Yes, I am aware that some businesses made a lot of money from the convoy.)

As I've said before in this thread, I am not opposed to reminding the government of its obligations to its citizens. I only object to doing so illegally, being rude to local residents, and hurting the livelihoods of local citizens who are not associated with the decisions of government officials.
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Re: Poll: Freedom Convoy and Related Protests

Post by Ernie »

And for those who are interested... A report regarding the police response.... from a couple weeks ago, October 26, 2022

https://www.albernivalleynews.com/news/ ... s-officer/
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Re: Poll: Freedom Convoy and Related Protests

Post by Ken »

I don't know about Ottawa, but we know how the American version ended.

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