History of Vaccine Mandates

[haithabu]

I acknowledge the seriousness of Covid and yet I have to say that the current wave, where 82% of eligible Albertans are vaccinated, is not noticeably different in scale and serious outcomes than earlier waves when none of them were. Sure the majority of victims (at this point) are unvaccinated, but it appears that the vaccinated are still doing their share in spreading the disease. So from a public health perspective it is a bust.

[mike]

I acknowledge the seriousness of Covid and yet I have to say that the current wave, where 82% of eligible Albertans are vaccinated, is not noticeably different in scale and serious outcomes than earlier waves when none of them were. Sure the majority of victims (at this point) are unvaccinated, but it appears that the vaccinated are still doing their share in spreading the disease. So from a public health perspective it is a bust.

In the US the current wave is notably different. It is not as deadly as prior waves. This is clear from the charts I posted the other day, where we see that we are coming off the second highest wave of number of cases, but only the third highest wave of number of deaths.

[Josh]

Here in the US, polio killed roughly 3,000 people in 1952 which was the worst year of the polio epidemic. Covid has killed 353,000 people so far in 2021 and the year is not yet over. You are right. They are not even close to comparable.

I compared IFR.

If you look at a place like New Zealand which has contained the spread of covid (in theory), they have around 27 deaths. That's a lot less than polio which killed around 175 people in the worst year in the 1920s.

I would think we could discuss statistics in good faith instead of cherry-picking and intentionally confusing total numbers and percentages.

[Josh]

I acknowledge the seriousness of Covid and yet I have to say that the current wave, where 82% of eligible Albertans are vaccinated, is not noticeably different in scale and serious outcomes than earlier waves when none of them were. Sure the majority of victims (at this point) are unvaccinated, but it appears that the vaccinated are still doing their share in spreading the disease. So from a public health perspective it is a bust.

And the unvaccinated are getting blamed for it.

[haithabu]

I have a little bit to add to the history of vaccine mandates: last night when my wife and I went to vote early in our city's municipal election we were turned away from the polling station because we were unable to produce a vaccine pass. So you can add disenfranchisement to the list of precedents.

We're not technically disenfranchised; we can still vote as long as the polling station is not in a school. But the Administrative State has 1000 ways to achieve its ends through indirect means. In this case it is by ensuring that most polling stations are in schools. We were finally able to vote at a polling station in a different ward which was in a community centre. But it's going to be a real scramble for unvaccinated voters on election night because this restriction has not been publicised.

I wrote on this issue to every member of the UCP (conservative) caucus and received a reply from our Canmore representative to the effect that our barring from the polls was all a terrible mistake and should not have taken place. This was reassuring but left me wondering if it was the province or just the school which was "trying it on" to see what they could get away with. You will excuse me for seeming cynical but anyone who is capable of taking away someone's livelihood for the Greater Good is also capable of taking away their vote. Such are the times we live in.

[temporal1]

I have a little bit to add to the history of vaccine mandates: last night when my wife and I went to vote early in our city's municipal election we were turned away from the polling station because we were unable to produce a vaccine pass.
So you can add disenfranchisement to the list of precedents.

We're not technically disenfranchised; we can still vote as long as the polling station is not in a school. But the Administrative State has 1000 ways to achieve its ends through indirect means. In this case it is by ensuring that most polling stations are in schools.
We were finally able to vote at a polling station in a different ward which was in a community centre.
But it's going to be a real scramble for unvaccinated voters on election night because this restriction has not been publicised.

I wrote on this issue to every member of the UCP (conservative) caucus and received a reply from our Canmore representative to the effect that our barring from the polls was all a terrible mistake and should not have taken place.

This was reassuring but left me wondering if it was the province or just the school which was "trying it on" to see what they could get away with.

You will excuse me for seeming cynical but anyone who is capable of taking away someone's livelihood for the Greater Good is also capable of taking away their vote.

Such are the times we live in.

i believe all of this.
i’d like to add, presently, a lot of “what is or could become wrong” is openly presented, and/or testing - “to see what they can get away with.” a serious problem seems to be folks either not listening, or not believing, what they are being told!

in the U.S., one blatant example was when both obama and hillary, in high public office, announced the DNC full commitment to support (corporate) abortion. no mincing words. no trickery. to me, a grand case of “to see what they can get away with!”
and, just look how successful they are!

you cannot make this up.

so, yes, grooming, and leveraging, grooming, and leveraging. to get away with murder - WITH the people’s approval/votes.
including many professing Christians. including some pastors and Christian leaders. “God bless abortions.”

when i was young, we learned about oppressive regimes that removed rights and forced horrible things on helpless people.
i don’t know what to make of people voting for horrible things, removal of their own rights; demanding more+more, not less.

quite a trick there.
wars are so primitive and messy. propaganda is cheaper and more efficient. convince people to vote for their own demise.
the pattern is clear. the playbook is not confined to IVM, vaccines, voting, abortion.

[haithabu]

I have a little bit to add to the history of vaccine mandates: last night when my wife and I went to vote early in our city's municipal election we were turned away from the polling station because we were unable to produce a vaccine pass.
So you can add disenfranchisement to the list of precedents.

We're not technically disenfranchised; we can still vote as long as the polling station is not in a school. But the Administrative State has 1000 ways to achieve its ends through indirect means. In this case it is by ensuring that most polling stations are in schools.
We were finally able to vote at a polling station in a different ward which was in a community centre.
But it's going to be a real scramble for unvaccinated voters on election night because this restriction has not been publicised.

I wrote on this issue to every member of the UCP (conservative) caucus and received a reply from our Canmore representative to the effect that our barring from the polls was all a terrible mistake and should not have taken place.

This was reassuring but left me wondering if it was the province or just the school which was "trying it on" to see what they could get away with.

You will excuse me for seeming cynical but anyone who is capable of taking away someone's livelihood for the Greater Good is also capable of taking away their vote.

Such are the times we live in.

i believe all of this.
i’d like to add, presently, a lot of “what is or could become wrong” is openly presented, and/or testing - “to see what they can get away with.” a serious problem seems to be folks either not listening, or not believing, what they are being told!

in the U.S., one blatant example was when both obama and hillary, in high public office, announced the DNC full commitment to support (corporate) abortion. no mincing words. no trickery. to me, a grand case of “to see what they can get away with!”
and, just look how successful they are!

you cannot make this up.

so, yes, grooming, and leveraging, grooming, and leveraging. to get away with murder - WITH the people’s approval/votes.
including many professing Christians. including some pastors and Christian leaders. “God bless abortions.”

when i was young, we learned about oppressive regimes that removed rights and forced horrible things on helpless people.
i don’t know what to make of people voting for horrible things, removal of their own rights; demanding more+more, not less.

quite a trick there.
wars are so primitive and messy. propaganda is cheaper and more efficient. convince people to vote for their own demise.
the pattern is clear. the playbook is not confined to IVM, vaccines, voting, abortion.

This video explains how it is done: society becomes unhinged through fear.

[PetrChelcicky]

Here I have a question.
In Italy, the government has expressively decreted that it will not be liable for any damages (incl. casualties) stemming from vaccination. On the other hand the government installs a "green passport" which makes vaccination more or less mandatory. The deputy Agamben (a renowned philosopher) has criticised this, as you cannot demand more trust in the vaccine than you have yourself.
Does anyone here know how this question of liability is managed in other countries?

[Wade]

Here I have a question.
In Italy, the government has expressively decreted that it will not be liable for any damages (incl. casualties) stemming from vaccination. On the other hand the government installs a "green passport" which makes vaccination more or less mandatory. The deputy Agamben (a renowned philosopher) has criticised this, as you cannot demand more trust in the vaccine than you have yourself.
Does anyone here know how this question of liability is managed in other countries?

Same here in Canada. No government or vaccine producer or doctor or etc. is liable in any way for the people dying and sick from a vaccine, but yet they can make laws at a whim in a pandemic restricting any unvaccinated person from certain activities without proof of evidence or reason for the restrictions.

[Josh]

Same in the U.S. - you can’t sue the manufacturers of vaccines for harm caused by them, yet they can be mandated/forced on you.