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Re: Miller Farms fined
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:52 am
by Robert
mike wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:45 am
Could be. So what Robert Barnes is doing is just spinning a technicality as a win for his client. Marketing.
Since a large amount of clients are out of state, I think it is more then marketing. His client list has gotten larger since Barnes has been promoting him to his listeners. I am a listener, but not a Miller client.
Re: Miller Farms fined
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:56 am
by mike
Robert wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:52 am
mike wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:45 am
Could be. So what Robert Barnes is doing is just spinning a technicality as a win for his client. Marketing.
Since a large amount of clients are out of state, I think it is more then marketing. His client list has gotten larger since Barnes has been promoting him to his listeners. I am a listener, but not a Miller client.
I meant marketing for Barnes, not Miller, although it probably works well for both of them. When something gets national attention, it's no surprise that a sizeable number of people will support the cause for one reason or another. Which is just another reason why Amos Miller will eventually make a deal to comply with the state on raw milk. To preserve his business.
Re: Miller Farms fined
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 11:18 am
by Josh
mike wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:56 am
Robert wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:52 am
Since a large amount of clients are out of state, I think it is more then marketing. His client list has gotten larger since Barnes has been promoting him to his listeners. I am a listener, but not a Miller client.
I meant marketing for Barnes, not Miller, although it probably works well for both of them. When something gets national attention, it's no surprise that a sizeable number of people will support the cause for one reason or another. Which is just another reason why Amos Miller will eventually make a deal to comply with the state on raw milk. To preserve his business.
The court of public opinion also matters, which is largely starting to perceive this as a purveyor of wholesome food against a government behemoth that just has it out for him. This is the government's fault that they have let it come to this.
In any case, no, PA courts can't enforce federal laws against raw milk any more than PA courts can somehow try to enforce federal laws that make marijuana illegal.
Re: Miller Farms fined
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:36 pm
by mike
Josh wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 11:18 am
mike wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:56 am
Robert wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:52 am
Since a large amount of clients are out of state, I think it is more then marketing. His client list has gotten larger since Barnes has been promoting him to his listeners. I am a listener, but not a Miller client.
I meant marketing for Barnes, not Miller, although it probably works well for both of them. When something gets national attention, it's no surprise that a sizeable number of people will support the cause for one reason or another. Which is just another reason why Amos Miller will eventually make a deal to comply with the state on raw milk. To preserve his business.
The court of public opinion also matters, which is largely starting to perceive this as a purveyor of wholesome food against a government behemoth that just has it out for him. This is the government's fault that they have let it come to this.
In any case, no, PA courts can't enforce federal laws against raw milk any more than PA courts can somehow try to enforce federal laws that make marijuana illegal.
I don't perceive it that way, and I blame Amos Miller, not the government. All he would have to do to sell raw milk in state is get certified. There's no way he can continue to sell raw milk products across state lines without getting into trouble with the FDA.
But, you could be right about public opinion. Maybe Robert Barnes' and Amos Miller's fans do represent American public opinion, and what we are really seeing is a shift that will finally result in the US and/or state government relaxing its food restrictions thanks to this special case. Somehow I kinda doubt that.
Re: Miller Farms fined
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:51 pm
by Szdfan
mike wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 1:36 pm
But, you could be right about public opinion. Maybe Robert Barnes' and Amos Miller's fans do represent American public opinion, and what we are really seeing is a shift that will finally result in the US and/or state government relaxing its food restrictions thanks to this special case. Somehow I kinda doubt that.
I think the market for raw milk is still comparatively small. How many people outside the interested parties and consumers are aware of these cases?
Re: Miller Farms fined
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 2:12 pm
by Josh
There is a relatively high level of awareness in in the circles of people who like to buy local organic food / go to farmer's markets / support CSAs / etc., which is a great diversity of people. To give an example, someone mentioned to me in passing that they are trying to "shut an Amish farm in PA down" because he represented too much competition to Big Ag and wasn't putting artificial chemicals in his food. (Technically, this person's viewpoint may have been correct.)
Rather importantly, this is something that spans both left and right wing political affiliations... people who are anti-Miller are much more likely to be people who feel comfortable with elitism and the current political regime, and people who are pro-Miller are much more likely to be people who are sceptics of Big Ag, big business, and so on.
Re: Miller Farms fined
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 2:51 pm
by mike
Josh wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 2:12 pm
There is a relatively high level of awareness in in the circles of people who like to buy local organic food / go to farmer's markets / support CSAs / etc., which is a great diversity of people. To give an example, someone mentioned to me in passing that they are trying to "shut an Amish farm in PA down" because he represented too much competition to Big Ag and wasn't putting artificial chemicals in his food. (Technically, this person's viewpoint may have been correct.)
Rather importantly, this is something that spans both left and right wing political affiliations... people who are anti-Miller are much more likely to be people who feel comfortable with elitism and the current political regime, and people who are pro-Miller are much more likely to be people who are sceptics of Big Ag, big business, and so on.
Yep. That doesn't speak to whether this phenomenon is something that represents the American public though.
Re: Miller Farms fined
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 3:41 pm
by Judas Maccabeus
Verity wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:18 am
Josh wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:10 am
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:28 am
Josh, Maryland regulation says ray milk cannot be transported off of the farm to any location other than a dairy licensed to receive said raw milk. Ownership is irrelevant. Even the owner is not permitted to transport off of his farm. As strange as it sounds, I know no one that is moving raw milk in Maryland, and I likely would. I know about heard shares in VA and over the counter sales in PA, but not here.
Other commodities seem to be very loosely regulated. Meat and milk are the outliers.
I guess my morning commute would be illegal in Maryland then.
Doesn't the queen of raw milk have a farm in Maryland? I heard that Sally Fallon is selling raw milk under a "pet food" label. That would be on a large scale; EPMC Mennonites in MD sell raw milk to church families and neighbors.
Just don't get caught promoting it as a wink and nod purchase. Unlike PA, Maryland regulatory agencies have much more power than they have in PA. Dealt with MDE, DLLR and Heath for a forty year career. They can close you down, and the courts are less friendly. MDE, (Maryland dept. of the Environment) Is particularly nasty. If this gets on their radar screen, watch out.
Re: Miller Farms fined
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 3:45 pm
by Soloist
I’ve never been comfortable with the wink and nod “pet food” I personally pasteurized all milk we buy unless it already is.
Re: Miller Farms fined
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 3:46 pm
by ohio jones
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:28 am
I know about heard shares in VA and over the counter sales in PA, but not here.
Have you herd this through personal conversation, or from a printed report that went past your eyes?
