Miller Farms fined

[Judas Maccabeus]

I know about heard shares in VA and over the counter sales in PA, but not here.

Have you herd this through personal conversation, or from a printed report that went past your eyes?

Personal conversation and seen with my own eyes, depending on state. One of my friends is facilitating herd shares in VA, where it is legal, and I fairly regularly have seen raw milk on sale in PA. We shop in PA occasionally.

[JohnHurt]

I searched and couldn't find any news about this. The sale of raw milk over state lines is one of the key issues of this case. Or is this about the sale of products other than raw milk? Why would they leave in place an injunction against selling his products within the state, but allow him to ship them out of state?

Here is more information:

https://www.infowars.com/posts/major-wi ... -of-state/

Good News

‘Major Win’ – Amish Farmer Persecuted By Feds Can Now Sell Raw Milk Out-of-State
by Kelen McBreen
March 20th 2024, 12:31 pm

Amos Miller, an Amish farmer in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, will be allowed to sell his raw milk products out-of-state following a ruling this week by Lancaster County Judge Thomas Sponaugle.

Attorney and podcast host Robert Barnes, who represents Miller in the case, labeled the decision a “major win” for the farmer.

“Court agreed to modify injunction so that it only applies within the state of Pennsylvania removing the ban on sales to customers outside state,” he wrote, thanking Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) and independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for their support.

The Kentucky congressman responded on X, writing, “Congrats! A small win, but a win nonetheless for Amos Miller . Why is the government is spending resources prosecuting an Amish farmer who sells to willing buyers when we have so many real problems at the moment? We should empower small farmers instead of prosecuting them.”

Covering the judge’s decision, Fox 43 wrote:

“In the first of two orders issued Monday, Lancaster County Judge Thomas Sponaugle denied the request from attorneys representing Upper Leacock farmer Amos Miller to dismiss the state’s lawsuit against him. The lawsuit was filed in January after the officials found Miller does not have a permit to sell raw milk and has not registered his business with the state. The inspection was prompted by two illnesses in Michigan and New York that were traced to Miller’s products.”

After Barnes argued a court order banning Miller from selling raw milk products anywhere equated to Pennsylvania governing trade in other states, Judge Sponaugle modified the order to allow the farmer to sell his items only to other states.

“With the modification in place, it appears as though Miller will be able to sell his products out-of-state, though federal law requires that milk shipped between states must be pasteurized, and Miller is already limited by a detaining order placed on his products earlier this year by the Department of Agriculture,” Fox 43 explained.

Miller and Barnes have just under three weeks to respond to the Department of Agriculture lawsuit.

Check out the 1776 Law Center for more information:

[Ken]

I can honestly understand getting fresh raw milk produced locally that day or the day before. That is what we have in the stores around here. Very fresh product.

But raw milk shipped across the country by FedEx or UPS so that you get it days later after it has been sitting in various warehouses and on various trucks? Eeesh. That's just going to be a bacteria culture.

[Soloist]

I can honestly understand getting fresh raw milk produced locally that day or the day before. That is what we have in the stores around here. Very fresh product.

But raw milk shipped across the country by FedEx or UPS so that you get it days later after it has been sitting in various warehouses and on various trucks? Eeesh. That's just going to be a bacteria culture.

Yeah I can completely agree.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I can honestly understand getting fresh raw milk produced locally that day or the day before. That is what we have in the stores around here. Very fresh product.

But raw milk shipped across the country by FedEx or UPS so that you get it days later after it has been sitting in various warehouses and on various trucks? Eeesh. That's just going to be a bacteria culture.

Yeah I can completely agree.

Shipping FedEx with dry ice is a pain. Requires dangerous goods training. Special vented packaging that is also insulated. Proper labeling, preparing a declaration and proper packaging. If you mess up, they will send it back to you. Second mess up, they embargo you, and not allow you to use their system. They can get the FAA involved. They do not kid around.

Than again, he might be shipping it unrefrigerated.........I could just imagine the coliform count from that.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I can honestly understand getting fresh raw milk produced locally that day or the day before. That is what we have in the stores around here. Very fresh product.

But raw milk shipped across the country by FedEx or UPS so that you get it days later after it has been sitting in various warehouses and on various trucks? Eeesh. That's just going to be a bacteria culture.

Yeah I can completely agree.

Shipping FedEx with dry ice is a pain. Requires dangerous goods training. Special vented packaging that is also insulated. Proper labeling, preparing a declaration and proper packaging. If you mess up, they will send it back to you. Second mess up, they embargo you, and not allow you to use their system. They can get the FAA involved. They do not kid around.

Than again, he might be shipping it unrefrigerated.........I could just imagine the coliform count from that.

Just calculated the shipping charge. A gallon of milk, FedEx overnight first A.M with the dangerous goods fee for the dry ice would take you somewhere over 90 dollars. If you ship a lot you may be able to negotiate a lower rate, but wow! Do people want it that badly?

[Ken]

Yeah I can completely agree.

Shipping FedEx with dry ice is a pain. Requires dangerous goods training. Special vented packaging that is also insulated. Proper labeling, preparing a declaration and proper packaging. If you mess up, they will send it back to you. Second mess up, they embargo you, and not allow you to use their system. They can get the FAA involved. They do not kid around.

Than again, he might be shipping it unrefrigerated.........I could just imagine the coliform count from that.

Just calculated the shipping charge. A gallon of milk, FedEx overnight first A.M with the dangerous goods fee for the dry ice would take you somewhere over 90 dollars. If you ship a lot you may be able to negotiate a lower rate, but wow! Do people want it that badly?

Cheaper just to buy yourself a milking goat and put it in the back yard.

[Szdfan]

There is a relatively high level of awareness in in the circles of people who like to buy local organic food / go to farmer's markets / support CSAs / etc., which is a great diversity of people. To give an example, someone mentioned to me in passing that they are trying to "shut an Amish farm in PA down" because he represented too much competition to Big Ag and wasn't putting artificial chemicals in his food. (Technically, this person's viewpoint may have been correct.)

Rather importantly, this is something that spans both left and right wing political affiliations... people who are anti-Miller are much more likely to be people who feel comfortable with elitism and the current political regime, and people who are pro-Miller are much more likely to be people who are sceptics of Big Ag, big business, and so on.

Yep. That doesn't speak to whether this phenomenon is something that represents the American public though.

The amount of crunchy and granola people eager to drink raw milk is very small compared to the amount of people happily drinking pasteurized milk. I don't have a sense that there is a groundswell of support for relaxing food safety laws.

[Ken]

There is a relatively high level of awareness in in the circles of people who like to buy local organic food / go to farmer's markets / support CSAs / etc., which is a great diversity of people. To give an example, someone mentioned to me in passing that they are trying to "shut an Amish farm in PA down" because he represented too much competition to Big Ag and wasn't putting artificial chemicals in his food. (Technically, this person's viewpoint may have been correct.)

Rather importantly, this is something that spans both left and right wing political affiliations... people who are anti-Miller are much more likely to be people who feel comfortable with elitism and the current political regime, and people who are pro-Miller are much more likely to be people who are sceptics of Big Ag, big business, and so on.

Yep. That doesn't speak to whether this phenomenon is something that represents the American public though.

The amount of crunchy and granola people eager to drink raw milk is very small compared to the amount of people happily drinking pasteurized milk. I don't have a sense that there is a groundswell of support for relaxing food safety laws.

There are a whole bunch of lefty food activist types out here in the Pacific Northwest. But it is far more stuff like veganism, anti-factory farms, anti-GMO foods, localism, farm-to-table efforts, than raw milk. You can get raw milk at ordinary grocery stores, but it is a very tiny niche. One of the local grocery stores that I pass on the way to work that is popular with the greenie/granola set has a tiny selection of raw milk and raw milk products in their dairy section. But it is very tiny compared to say the amount of organic greens, non-GMO grains, 23 varieties of tofu, and that sort of thing that they have much more prominently displayed.

I'm not vegan by a long stretch. But honestly, if you are going for a healthy diet, then a vegan diet is going to be far superior to a raw-milk diet.

[Josh]

Just don't get caught promoting it as a wink and nod purchase. Unlike PA, Maryland regulatory agencies have much more power than they have in PA. Dealt with MDE, DLLR and Heath for a forty year career. They can close you down, and the courts are less friendly. MDE, (Maryland dept. of the Environment) Is particularly nasty. If this gets on their radar screen, watch out.

It’s sold as pet milk. (Australia did the same thing with “bath milk”.) It was very clear what is being sold. I am confident it’s already in their “radar”.