Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

[temporal1]

My son lived in this notorious/hep neighborhood for a time. i visited.
i’m glad he’s not there now, his former apt is in the middle of it.
my daughter+family are “sheltered in place” across the bridge.
She tells me it’s pretty bad.

i have no idea of the truthiness of either report:

Seattle anarchists give list of demands, Trump orders Dems:
‘Take back your city, NOW! If you don’t do it, I will.’
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/06/11 ... term=EMAIL

Protesters pack into Seattle City Hall, remain at East Precinct
https://mynorthwest.com/1930871/seattle ... s-tuesday/?

[RZehr]

Imagine the difference in media coverage if right wingers did this. If a bunch of 2nd Amendments enthusiasts took over 6 blocks of a major cities downtown area and started making demands.
Oh wait, Malheur Wildlife Refuge wasn’t in the city.

[temporal1]

Imagine the difference in media coverage if right wingers did this. If a bunch of 2nd Amendments enthusiasts took over 6 blocks of a major cities downtown area and started making demands.
Oh wait, Malheur Wildlife Refuge wasn’t in the city.

One of the earliest outrages about “right wingers with guns” versus the response to Mr Floyd’s death was about the recent “show” legal gun owners displayed at the Virginia capitol, i.e., show of support for 2nd Amendment Rights.

(i did not follow Virginia closely, i saw pictures of protesting men with legal firearms gathering.)
i do not believe any shots were threatened or fired. no riots. no vandalism.

my response to the utter hatred aimed at these legal gun owners was: better legal, restrained and controlled firearms than bricks hurled, matches+gasoline lit.

[ken_sylvania]

Imagine the difference in media coverage if right wingers did this. If a bunch of 2nd Amendments enthusiasts took over 6 blocks of a major cities downtown area and started making demands.
Oh wait, Malheur Wildlife Refuge wasn’t in the city.

You have to understand the seriousness of burning federal grasslands. That's terrorism!

[Bootstrap]

Imagine the difference in media coverage if right wingers did this. If a bunch of 2nd Amendments enthusiasts took over 6 blocks of a major cities downtown area and started making demands.
Oh wait, Malheur Wildlife Refuge wasn’t in the city.

Great example! I don't like armed groups setting themselves up in opposition to the government.

So ... should the police have stormed in and dominated the Bundys and their allies? Should they have used maximum force instead of de-escalating?

What if the President had tried to send 10,000 armed troops to "dominate" the Bundys on the ranch? Good idea? Bad idea? Why? Do you think it would have saved lives and quickly restored order? What actually works to restore the rule of law with as little loss of life as possible?

[Soloist]

There is no way to take back a section of a city that is being protected/controlled by anarchists without someone dying.

If this is legit news... thats not good and we have used military force to put down riots/protests/rebellions before.

Even to the point of using 6 tanks... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

[Ken]

My brother lives near there and works at a half-way house on Capitol Hill so he passes through there every day. He says it's no big deal. Mostly just ordinary peaceful protest stuff happening and the usual menagerie of street music, kids out doing sidewalk art with chalk, lots of signs and banners and that sort of thing. No one is rioting or breaking things. I have another cousin who lives up there and has been posting photos from his apartment balcony. It all looks pretty festive and peaceful. Here's a local story from the Seattle Times, which is far from a liberal paper.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... ut-police/

They closed off some streets to car traffic without the city's permission to make a pedestrian park. Are painting murals and "Black Lives Matter" on the streets, showing free outdoor protest movies on the walls of buildings at night. Running a farmer's market and handing out food donations. Really scary stuff.

Seattle actually has a long history of this sort of thing. This is what happened 101 years ago, last time there was a big pandemic. The famous Seattle General Strike of 1919.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_General_Strike

A cooperative body made up of rank and file workers from all the striking locals were formed during the strike, called the General Strike Committee. It acted as a "virtual counter-government for the city." The committee organized to provide essential services for the people of Seattle during the work stoppage. For instance, garbage that would create a health hazard was collected, laundry workers continued to handle hospital laundry, and firemen remained on duty. Exemptions to the stoppage of labor had to be passed by the Strike Committee, and authorized vehicles bore signs to that effect. In general, work was not halted if doing so would endanger lives.

In other cases, workers acted on their own initiative to create new institutions. Milk wagon drivers, after being denied the right by their employers to keep certain dairies open, established a distribution system of 35 neighborhood milk stations. A system of food distribution was also established, which throughout the strike committee distributed as many as 30,000 meals each day. Strikers paid twenty-five cents per meal, and the general public paid thirty-five cents. Beef stew, spaghetti, bread, and coffee were offered on an all-you-can-eat basis.

Army veterans created an alternative to the police in order to maintain order. A group called the "Labor War Veteran's Guard" forbade the use of force and did not carry weapons, and used "persuasion only." Peacekeeping proved unnecessary. The regular police forces made no arrests in actions related to the strike, and general arrests dropped to less than half their normal number. Major General John F. Morrison, stationed in Seattle, claimed that he had never seen "a city so quiet and orderly."

The methods of organization adopted by the striking workers bore resemblance to anarcho-syndicalism, perhaps reflecting the influence of the Industrial Workers of the World in the Pacific Northwest,[citation needed] though only a few striking locals were officially affiliated with the IWW.

[temporal1]

Imagine the difference in media coverage if right wingers did this. If a bunch of 2nd Amendments enthusiasts took over 6 blocks of a major cities downtown area and started making demands.
Oh wait, Malheur Wildlife Refuge wasn’t in the city.

Great example! I don't like armed groups setting themselves up in opposition to the government.

So ... should the police have stormed in and dominated the Bundys and their allies? Should they have used maximum force instead of de-escalating?

What if the President had tried to send 10,000 armed troops to "dominate" the Bundys on the ranch? Good idea? Bad idea? Why? Do you think it would have saved lives and quickly restored order? What actually works to restore the rule of law with as little loss of life as possible?

De-escalate? not exactly.
After Robert “LaVoy” Finicum was killed, no riots followed, no aggressive take overs of cities, or rural lands.

“Family of rancher killed in Bundy standoff sues the U.S., Oregon police”
https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-worl ... on-police/

i do not differentiate between “armed with firearms,” and “armed with bricks, matches, gasoline, etc.” the latter can be more uncontrolled, costly, and deadly. think Iraq and Afghanistan.

Ironically, the Oregon incident ^^ was also a BLM clash.
U.S. Bureau of Land Management

There is no way to take back a section of a city that is being protected/controlled by anarchists without someone dying.

If this is legit news... thats not good and we have used military force to put down riots/protests/rebellions before.

Even to the point of using 6 tanks... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

(i think) the decision to be “prepared to be deadly” has to be made.

however, often times, a SHOW of force is sufficient to quell the storm. most are not suicidal.
DJT has been successful in quelling storms. far more so than widely predicted (and enthusiastically accused).

The DNC is playing really ugly campaign games in 2020. No bottom to that pit.

[temporal1]

My brother lives near there and works at a half-way house on Capitol Hill so he passes through there every day. He says it's no big deal. Mostly just ordinary peaceful protest stuff happening and the usual menagerie of street music, kids out doing sidewalk art with chalk, lots of signs and banners and that sort of thing. No one is rioting or breaking things. I have another cousin who lives up there and has been posting photos from his apartment balcony. It all looks pretty festive and peaceful. Here's a local story from the Seattle Times, which is far from a liberal paper.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... ut-police/

They closed off some streets to car traffic without the city's permission to make a pedestrian park. Are painting murals and "Black Lives Matter" on the streets, showing free outdoor protest movies on the walls of buildings at night. Running a farmer's market and handing out food donations. Really scary stuff.

Seattle actually has a long history of this sort of thing. This is what happened 101 years ago, last time there was a big pandemic. The famous Seattle General Strike of 1919.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_General_Strike

It’s not going to remain just a quirky seattle neighborhood block party.
Well-funded political blocs/media won’t allow it. Not in 2020. Not unless dems win in Nov.
The world’s eyes are on Seattle. DNC cities are on it. Chicago’s mayor .. ugh.

Portland, OR
https://districtherald.com/breaking-por ... y-warlord/

[Ken]

My brother lives near there and works at a half-way house on Capitol Hill so he passes through there every day. He says it's no big deal. Mostly just ordinary peaceful protest stuff happening and the usual menagerie of street music, kids out doing sidewalk art with chalk, lots of signs and banners and that sort of thing. No one is rioting or breaking things. I have another cousin who lives up there and has been posting photos from his apartment balcony. It all looks pretty festive and peaceful. Here's a local story from the Seattle Times, which is far from a liberal paper.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... ut-police/

They closed off some streets to car traffic without the city's permission to make a pedestrian park. Are painting murals and "Black Lives Matter" on the streets, showing free outdoor protest movies on the walls of buildings at night. Running a farmer's market and handing out food donations. Really scary stuff.

Seattle actually has a long history of this sort of thing. This is what happened 101 years ago, last time there was a big pandemic. The famous Seattle General Strike of 1919.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_General_Strike

It’s not going to remain just a quirky seattle neighborhood block party.
Well-funded political blocs/media won’t allow it. Not in 2020. Not unless dems win in Nov.
The world’s eyes are on Seattle. DNC cities are on it. Chicago’s mayor .. ugh.

Portland, OR
https://districtherald.com/breaking-por ... y-warlord/

I don't know where you are getting this stuff, but I actually live in the Portland area and I was actually downtown with my 14 year old daughter yesterday doing some walking around and getting Thai takeout from a food cart. There is nothing going on at 3rd and Salmon downtown. Certainly no "autonomous zone" We did run into a protest march in SE Portland near Benson Polytech high school that was large but completely peaceful and organized. Looked like lots of teachers judging from the signs. Also lost of students and kids having a good time. Utterly unremarkable.