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Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 10:17 pm Yes, there is a statistically significant relationship between partisan leaning and both COVD vaccination rates and COVID death rates. Prior to the availability of vaccines, Republicans and Democrats were dying of COVID at roughly the same rate. After the availability of vaccines, the death rates diverged. That isn't some statistician trying to find a way to make some statement true. It was the same populations before and after. The only difference was vaccination rates.

Which statement do you think is untrue and unsupported by the data?

• That Republicans and Democrats died of COVID at roughly the same rates prior to the introduction of the vaccines
• That once the vaccines became available, Democrats had measurably higher vaccination rates than Republicans
• That after the vaccines were available, Republicans had higher COVID death rates than Republicans.

If you disagree with the conclusions of the study then you must believe one of the above statements is false. Which one?

It's already been established that vaccines don't save lives and in fact may make things worse, given the complete lack of any difference in countries with high vaccination rates versus low vaccination rates. If you want to take a vaccine, go right ahead. Nobody is stopping you. The rest of us would like to preserve our health.

Let's try this with a slightly different (but related) topic.

People who are Democrats have higher rates of mental illness than people who are Republicans. This is supposed by the "science" and the "data".

Now, why is this?

Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 10:32 pmIt's already been established that vaccines don't save lives and in fact may make things worse...

No, nothing of the sort has ever been established. To the contrary. Every vaccine from smallpox to polio to measles to COVID has actually saved vast numbers of lives.

Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 10:32 pmIf you want to take a vaccine, go right ahead. Nobody is stopping you. The rest of us would like to preserve our health.

Right.

Josh wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 10:32 pmLet's try this with a slightly different (but related) topic.

People who are Democrats have higher rates of mental illness than people who are Republicans. This is supposed by the "science" and the "data".

Now, why is this?

At this point this is merely an assertion of yours. What evidence do you have to make such a claim? If you actually have some I'd be happy to look at it and give you my thoughts. And are you actually measuring higher rates of mental illness? or is it simply that Democrats may be more likely than Republicans to seek therapy or counseling for mental health issues? Those are two different things entirely.

Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 10:54 pm At this point this is merely an assertion of yours. What evidence do you have to make such a claim? If you actually have some I'd be happy to look at it and give you my thoughts. And are you actually measuring higher rates of mental illness? or is it simply that Democrats may be more likely than Republicans to seek therapy or counseling for mental health issues? Those are two different things entirely.

See Gallup, 2007, for an example, where this effect persisted even after being adjusted for things like income (which presumably corresponds with access to mental health care services). This study area has been repeated numerous times with the same result.

Of course, I'm neither a Republican nor a Democrat, so I don't get to lay claim to either excellent mental health by reason of partisan association nor plead poor mental health.

Then again, that also means I don't neatly fit into one of your "boxes" when it comes to vaccines. But then again, I haven't died of COVID either.

Josh wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:40 am

Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 10:54 pm At this point this is merely an assertion of yours. What evidence do you have to make such a claim? If you actually have some I'd be happy to look at it and give you my thoughts. And are you actually measuring higher rates of mental illness? or is it simply that Democrats may be more likely than Republicans to seek therapy or counseling for mental health issues? Those are two different things entirely.

See Gallup, 2007, for an example, where this effect persisted even after being adjusted for things like income (which presumably corresponds with access to mental health care services). This study area has been repeated numerous times with the same result.

Of course, I'm neither a Republican nor a Democrat, so I don't get to lay claim to either excellent mental health by reason of partisan association nor plead poor mental health.

Then again, that also means I don't neatly fit into one of your "boxes" when it comes to vaccines. But then again, I haven't died of COVID either.

So no actual evidence that you can link to then? OK.

Ken wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:54 am

Josh wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:40 am

Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 10:54 pm At this point this is merely an assertion of yours. What evidence do you have to make such a claim? If you actually have some I'd be happy to look at it and give you my thoughts. And are you actually measuring higher rates of mental illness? or is it simply that Democrats may be more likely than Republicans to seek therapy or counseling for mental health issues? Those are two different things entirely.

See Gallup, 2007, for an example, where this effect persisted even after being adjusted for things like income (which presumably corresponds with access to mental health care services). This study area has been repeated numerous times with the same result.

Of course, I'm neither a Republican nor a Democrat, so I don't get to lay claim to either excellent mental health by reason of partisan association nor plead poor mental health.

Then again, that also means I don't neatly fit into one of your "boxes" when it comes to vaccines. But then again, I haven't died of COVID either.

So no actual evidence that you can link to then? OK.

Third time I’ve said this, so pay attention.

See Gallup 2007.

Josh wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:21 pm

Ken wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:54 am

Josh wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:40 am

See Gallup, 2007, for an example, where this effect persisted even after being adjusted for things like income (which presumably corresponds with access to mental health care services). This study area has been repeated numerous times with the same result.

Of course, I'm neither a Republican nor a Democrat, so I don't get to lay claim to either excellent mental health by reason of partisan association nor plead poor mental health.

Then again, that also means I don't neatly fit into one of your "boxes" when it comes to vaccines. But then again, I haven't died of COVID either.

So no actual evidence that you can link to then? OK.

Third time I’ve said this, so pay attention.

See Gallup 2007.

What is that? Some made-up reference? Is it so obscure that you can't even find a link to the actual study?

This is what Gallup 2007 returns: https://www.google.com/search?q=gallup%2C+2007

I don't expect the search would turn up anything relevant to a coronavirus outbreak.

Try adding "mental health" to your search.

justme wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 8:26 pm back in the height of it all, it was common for the sentinel to have 2 pages of deaths per day. way more than normal. most of them were elderly, and a lot of them were nursing home residents.
now we are back to 1/2 page per day.

the difference that i am seeing, now, is there are many young people in that 1/2 page per day.
there is at least 1 person every day in that 1/2 page who is only 40 or 50 ish.
i don't remember there ever being that many in the past.

This is very disturbing.
i’m not seeing anything from a medical pov, but i notice reports each week, esp of young athletes, also, famous people/their family members, late teens to 40’s? .. very sick or suddenly deceased .. ??? There are reports, but, why?

What about those not reported? What is happening?

Ken wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 10:17 pm
Which statement do you think is untrue and unsupported by the data?

• That Republicans and Democrats died of COVID at roughly the same rates prior to the introduction of the vaccines
• That once the vaccines became available, Democrats had measurably higher vaccination rates than Republicans
• That after the vaccines were available, Republicans had higher COVID death rates than Republicans.

If you disagree with the conclusions of the study then you must believe one of the above statements is false. Which one?

The Lancet had to remove some research that was found to be done poorly about Covid once. I would not claim they are the ultimate source.

I think your third bullet point was supposed to be "Republicans had higher COVID death rates than Republicans Democrats".

I think the Covid vaccine is helpful for someone in the high risk category. I think it is somewhat risky for someone in the low risk category. It takes 10 years to really find out if a vaccine is ultimately helpful. There can be long term issues that just take time to surface. I think we are seeing a few of them. I will not take another shot since I am not in the high risk category. I only had one several years ago.

I will count on a healthy lifestyle, daily vitamins, and a very strong immune system. Everyone can do the first two, the last, healthy immune system is my blessing, but not everyone else's. I think they should work with their doctor to determine if they should get it. Each person will have different needs.

A large part of the Democrat base, the African-Americans, had a very low vaccine rate. Many of them are in a higher risk category.

I did think it was quite telling that most Democrats were refusing the vaccine when Trump was developing it and ramming it through. As soon as a Democrat was president, they all the sudden demanded everyone had to take it.

BTW, stop the personal attacks and just state your opinions and understanding.