Coronavirus Outbreak

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
haithabu
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by haithabu »

Josh wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:10 pm
Ken wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:47 pmThat sounds about right. Children are far more at risk of being vectors of the disease rather than to be hospitalized or die of it.
That's not at all true of basically every other disease we vaccinate children for, like measles or polio.
That is how you get things like hundreds and hundreds of kids catching and spreading covid at schools across the south when they started this past August. The danger is more that it generates uncontrolled community spread of the disease including to vulnerable elderly and others, not that kids are at particular risk of dying. For example, Tennessee alone had over 400 different schools forced to close between August and September this year due to uncontrolled Covid outbreaks amongst school children: https://www.newschannel5.com/news/tenne ... l-closures By contrast, Oregon, which had much stricter mask requirements only had one school closure during the same time period and that was largely due to the incompetence of the school administration to do proper contact tracing than the size of the outbreak.
Or maybe it should simply be accepted as normal that kids are going to have colds and spread them. Everybody knows this and has always accepted it. This disease should be no different.

Giving children a vaccine which will kill them more than the disease they're being vaccinated for seems unethical and wrong.
My concern with vaccinating children for Covid with the current vaccines is that

(a) it would slow, not prevent the spread of Covid among the kids.

(b) ***the risk - and it is a huge one - is that that it might interfere with the children's natural sterilizing immunity and start a Marek's disease type of cycle among children whereby the most harmful variants are no longer selected against.***

We have been blessed so far in the pandemic that children have been relatively unaffected by the virus (except as collateral damage in the efforts of their elders to avoid it!). My fear is that a mass vaccination campaign among children would be followed a few months later by a wave of infections from a strain which is harmful to them.

This appears to be what is happening in Alberta right now among younger adults, with rapid spread among unvaccinated but healthy young Albertans following upon the vaccination of masses of their cohort a few months ago. In some it has taken a dangerous form. I have described what my son's family are going through; this is echoed in many other families, all beginning in the last few weeks.

Here is a letter from the church we have begun attending:
I am sorry to announce that for a second weekend in a row we feel compelled to restrict in-person attendance of our Sunday worship service. I hate to voluntarily restrict our meetings when for most of the last two years we have done all we could do to keep in-person meetings happening, believing that it is vital to the health of the church for the church to gather. However, in the past our congregation has always been healthy. But last Wednesday, when we became aware of 24 members of our church who were sick, (many with Covid) and the number was continuing to rise, we recognized that we are facing something new, and made the decision that for the physical well-being of the church we needed to cancel our Sunday service and give the church family a chance to get well.

Although ______ and I along with many others are slowly feeling better, many still continue to be sick this week, and we are hearing of still more new cases of sickness, though it seems to be slowing down, for which we thank the Lord. Therefore, this Sunday, we are going to greatly limit our in-person gathering to one small group, (it helps having a few faces to preach to), and encourage the church instead to meet in homes and watch the live stream. If you are feeling well, please gather with a home church group this Sunday, rather than meeting at PGF.

For many months we were daily reminded of all the Covid cases in our city, but with few exceptions, there was never anyone sick in the church. Now, in spite of an unprecedented vaccination campaign in our province, we suddenly have more people get sick than ever since the start of Covid, in just one week. Obviously, something unusual is going on and things are getting worse, which is exactly what the Bible has been warning us to expect. Let us trust the word of God.

Praise the Lord, we are unaware of anyone from the church having to be hospitalized. However, please be much in prayer for the well-being of our church family as a few of you have been very sick (i.e., ___ is still struggling with pneumonia). Please also be in prayer for wisdom to know the best way to respond to these circumstances. The enemy would delight in seeing us shut down and stay home every time there is the threat of danger, so obviously that cannot be our default response. We must learn to wisely and effectively resist the devil, for when we do, he, not us, will flee from the battle.

“For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds.” 2Corinthians 10:4 NIV/NKJV. Therefore, please pray that as a church we become more proficient at understanding and using the weapons the Lord has given to the church. Most of us are not accustomed to living in perilous times—we have much to learn from God so that we can thrive in these days.
In Christ,


For this reason I would strenuously oppose the mass vaccination of children even though the logic of the pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated narrative leads toward it.
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Valerie
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Valerie »

GaryK wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:12 pm Interesting report by Sharyl Attkisson on the Amish and Covid.

https://fullmeasure.news/news/shows/amish-covid
Did anyone view this? Was hoping for discussion
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GaryK
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by GaryK »

Valerie wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:34 pm
GaryK wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:12 pm Interesting report by Sharyl Attkisson on the Amish and Covid.

https://fullmeasure.news/news/shows/amish-covid
Did anyone view this? Was hoping for discussion
There is some discussion happening in the other thread.

https://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.ph ... 789af61121
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GaryK
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by GaryK »

Want to get a governor who mandates vaccines for nearly everyone in his state (including school children) to appeal a mandate to the Ninth Circuit? Give him 1.75 million for his recent campaign. :?

https://www.sfgate.com/california-polit ... 530809.php
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temporal1
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by temporal1 »

GaryK wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:16 am Want to get a governor who mandates vaccines for nearly everyone in his state (including school children) to appeal a mandate to the Ninth Circuit? Give him 1.75 million for his recent campaign. :?

https://www.sfgate.com/california-polit ... 530809.php
i believe i read the U.S.P.S. (union) accomplished similar.
incompetence married to corruption.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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silentreader
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by silentreader »

Several interesting statistics mentioned in passing.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton ... -1.6212510
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Wade
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Wade »

For those of you posting about unvaccinated people being the highest number of hospitalized people and believing these skewed misleading data here is a little update in BC:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6212388

So this month the health authority announced that all nursing home residents will receive their booster shoots before the end of this week. Nursing homes are 100% vaccination zones - all employees, visitors, and residents are vaccinated. The health authority is not telling us who is dying directly but just a bit of looking is showing that it looks like it is vaccinated people who are dying from COVID the most.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/dozens-dead-hundr ... -1.5624106
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Robert
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Robert »

Wade wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:48 am For those of you posting about unvaccinated people being the highest number of hospitalized people and believing these skewed misleading data here is a little update in BC:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6212388

So this month the health authority announced that all nursing home residents will receive their booster shoots before the end of this week. Nursing homes are 100% vaccination zones - all employees, visitors, and residents are vaccinated. The health authority is not telling us who is dying directly but just a bit of looking is showing that it looks like it is vaccinated people who are dying from COVID the most.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/dozens-dead-hundr ... -1.5624106
That is whee vaccines should be targeted instead of school children.
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Wade
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Wade »

Robert wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:15 am
Wade wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:48 am For those of you posting about unvaccinated people being the highest number of hospitalized people and believing these skewed misleading data here is a little update in BC:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6212388

So this month the health authority announced that all nursing home residents will receive their booster shoots before the end of this week. Nursing homes are 100% vaccination zones - all employees, visitors, and residents are vaccinated. The health authority is not telling us who is dying directly but just a bit of looking is showing that it looks like it is vaccinated people who are dying from COVID the most.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/dozens-dead-hundr ... -1.5624106
That is whee vaccines should be targeted instead of school children.
So it can kill more people? If people would realize that what they aren't telling us is that many more nursing home residents are dying "from COVID" within a week or so of receiving their booster shots it would start to become obvious that children shouldn't be targeted since people in nursing homes are dying from with the vaccine. But until people realize this they just watch death counts and say, "We need to do something!" And since nearly 90% of adults are vaccinated here in BC they turn on the children like dogs...
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Ernie
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Ernie »

Soloist wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:02 pm What do you deem as reasonable precautions that we are not even discussing? Stay home when you're sick? no one is arguing that... I think you are misreading people and ignoring those stuck in these extreme situations you pontificate away.
On average, Covid symptoms show up in the newly infected person about 5 days after contact. Rarely, symptoms appear as soon as 2 days after exposure. One study reported that 97.5% of people who became infected and have symptoms will do so within 11.5 days of SARS-CoV-2 infection. In rare cases, symptoms can show up after 14 days.

Some people may have the coronavirus and never show symptoms. Others may not know that they have it because their symptoms are very mild. Current studies might not include the mildest cases, and the incubation period could be different for these.

When Is the Coronavirus the Most Contagious?
Researchers estimate that people who get infected with the coronavirus can spread it to others 2 to 3 days before symptoms start and are most contagious 1 to 2 days before they feel sick.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus- ... n-period#1

As compared with Influenza A and B

When Flu Spreads
People with flu are most contagious in the first three to four days after their illness begins. Most healthy adults may be able to infect others beginning 1 day before symptoms develop and up to 5 to 7 days after becoming sick. Children and some people with weakened immune systems may pass the virus for longer than 7 days.

Symptoms can begin about 2 days (but can range from 1 to 4 days) after the virus enters the body. That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others.

People with flu are most contagious in the first 3-4 days after their illness begins.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm

So the biggest difference with Covid (as compared to Influenza) from what I can understand is the time when people are most contagious. If the virus is in your household, "well" family members could easily be spreading it.

In light of this, here is what I recommend for mitigating the spread of Covid whenever there are outbreaks in ones' community or region or if an outbreak is possibly about to happen... (This is what we try to practice as a family.)

1. When possible, talk to others from a distance of 6-10 feet away or wear a mask.
2. If you are inclined to shake hands with people or believe that Christians should practice the Holy Kiss during a pandemic of this nature, do so and then back away.
3. Use sanitizer or wash your hands with soap and warm water after touching things others have recently touched.
4. Cough into your elbow rather than into your hand.
5. Meet outdoors when possible. When meeting indoors, have airflow through the building if possible.
6. Meet in smaller groups rather than larger groups.
7. Where a mask when riding in a vehicle with non-family members.
8. Sing in open areas with some physical distance between one's self and non-family members.

In addition,
If you or a family member have been exposed to someone with Covid, self-quarantine or take additional measures to help protect others from getting your virus.
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