Global Warning/Climate Change

[temporal1]

Judith Curry P.187:

[media]https://twitter

now, where have i seen this before?

[temporal1]

Lake Tahoe / Donner Pass area / California Sierras

Some reports predicted 10’ of snow.

“Donner Pass, CA - Insane Blizzard Blasts California” (dated 2023, it could be both years, or any year in that location!)


george,
are you related to The 1846 Donner Party?
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Donner-party
Donner Party
Donner Pass
Donner Lake

[Ken]

Lake Tahoe / Donner Pass area / California Sierras

Some reports predicted 10’ of snow.

Pop quiz.

In a warming climate would you expect MORE snow or LESS snow at high elevations in the mountains?

And also explain why in the actual Arctic and Antarctic there is very little snow. In fact, there are parts of Antarctica that have seen no snow or precipitation of any kind for nearly 2 million years. And the Arctic around the North Pole gets less than 4" of snow per year.

[JimFoxvog]

If there were global warming, you might expect something like this:



It looks serious to me.

[temporal1]

i regret posting this here, i had no desire of launching .. ^^what’s already been discussed earlier in this topic.
snow can fall at 32F, even a bit above, when atmospheric temps allow. imho, 32F is warm for winter. typically, “spring snows” could easily have been rains, they usually don’t last, but ALL forms contribute to annual precip totals.

there is a small degree margin that decides rain/sleet/snow. it’s all water.

big snowfalls get media attention because they’re dramatic. every year.

since we’re here, though, i think this is an ignored question:
HOW DO BIG MILITARY CONFLICTS FACTOR IN WITH LIB CLIMATE WORRIES?

Has Russia-Ukraine, now Israel-Hamas given us this lovely mild winter? Or, does the MIC just get an automatic pass? $$$$
Add these questions to those of private jets, mansions, yachts, etc., that serve the panic-leaders. $$$$
The “rules for thee, not for me,” crowd that PROFITS from their “rules for thee.” $$$$

Lake Tahoe / Donner Pass area / California Sierras

Some reports predicted 10’ of snow.

“Donner Pass, CA - Insane Blizzard Blasts California” (dated 2023, it could be both years, or any year in that location!)
https://www.youtube

george,
are you related to The 1846 Donner Party?
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Donner-party
Donner Party
Donner Pass
Donner Lake

[Ken]

All precipitation including snow comes from evaporation of water (mostly from oceans and lakes). As the climate warms over the world's oceans, and oceans themselves warm we would expect increased evaporation and moisture in the air. Warmer air can also hold more water than colder air.

As that warm moisture-laden air moves inland it brings precipitation which comes down in the form of snow in higher elevations. As the air rises to pass over mountains it cools producing snow. That is why the Cascades and Sierra along the Pacific Coast get 5x or more snowfall than the Rocky Mountains which are much colder in winter. And why it rarely ever snows in the true Arctic and Antarctic. It's too cold. So a warming climate would be expected to bring increased precipitation to the west coast, much of which will fall as snow in the higher elevations. Donner Pass is over 7,000 ft high, which is higher than the highest point east of the Rocky Mountains.

With continued warming, eventually the mountains of the west coast would become tropical rain forests like Costa Rica. But we are many many degrees of warming away from that yet.

I'm not sure what you think the connection is between climate change and the wars in Ukraine and Gaza. Do you think climate had anything to do with the decisions by Putin and Hamas to start wars?

[RZehr]

All precipitation including snow comes from evaporation of water (mostly from oceans and lakes). As the climate warms over the world's oceans and oceans themselves warm we would expect increased evaporation and moisture in the air. Warmer air can also hold more water than colder air.

As that warm moisture-laden air moves inland it brings precipitation which comes down in the form of snow in higher elevations. As the air rises to pass over mountains it cools producing snow. That is why the Cascades and Sierra along the Pacific Coast get 5x or more snowfall than the Rocky Mountains which are much colder in winter. And why it rarely ever snows in the true Arctic and Antarctic. It's too cold. So a warming climate would be expected to bring increased precipitation to the west coast, much of which will fall as snow in the higher elevations. Donner Pass is over 7,000 ft high, which is higher than the highest point east of the Rocky Mountains.

I'm not sure what you think the connection is between climate change and the wars in Ukraine and Gaza. Do you think climate had anything to do with the decisions by Putin and Hamas to start wars?

And yet what are we told? The mountain glaciers are melting, the glaciers are melting, melting, Melting, MELTING!

[Ken]

All precipitation including snow comes from evaporation of water (mostly from oceans and lakes). As the climate warms over the world's oceans and oceans themselves warm we would expect increased evaporation and moisture in the air. Warmer air can also hold more water than colder air.

As that warm moisture-laden air moves inland it brings precipitation which comes down in the form of snow in higher elevations. As the air rises to pass over mountains it cools producing snow. That is why the Cascades and Sierra along the Pacific Coast get 5x or more snowfall than the Rocky Mountains which are much colder in winter. And why it rarely ever snows in the true Arctic and Antarctic. It's too cold. So a warming climate would be expected to bring increased precipitation to the west coast, much of which will fall as snow in the higher elevations. Donner Pass is over 7,000 ft high, which is higher than the highest point east of the Rocky Mountains.

I'm not sure what you think the connection is between climate change and the wars in Ukraine and Gaza. Do you think climate had anything to do with the decisions by Putin and Hamas to start wars?

And yet what are we told? The mountain glaciers are melting, the glaciers are melting, melting, Melting, MELTING!

You aren't just told that. It is actually happening.

Why? Because the spring, summer, and fall is getting warmer, not because there is necessarily less snowfall in winter. Glaciers melt in August not February.

From where you live, you should notice that Mt. Hood, Mt. Jefferson and the Three Sisters are getting more and more bare every year by late August and September. Even if they still get plenty of snowfall in winter. That is due to hotter summers and springs that come earlier than before. Surely if you are in agriculture you have noticed this, no?

[RZehr]

All precipitation including snow comes from evaporation of water (mostly from oceans and lakes). As the climate warms over the world's oceans and oceans themselves warm we would expect increased evaporation and moisture in the air. Warmer air can also hold more water than colder air.

As that warm moisture-laden air moves inland it brings precipitation which comes down in the form of snow in higher elevations. As the air rises to pass over mountains it cools producing snow. That is why the Cascades and Sierra along the Pacific Coast get 5x or more snowfall than the Rocky Mountains which are much colder in winter. And why it rarely ever snows in the true Arctic and Antarctic. It's too cold. So a warming climate would be expected to bring increased precipitation to the west coast, much of which will fall as snow in the higher elevations. Donner Pass is over 7,000 ft high, which is higher than the highest point east of the Rocky Mountains.

I'm not sure what you think the connection is between climate change and the wars in Ukraine and Gaza. Do you think climate had anything to do with the decisions by Putin and Hamas to start wars?

And yet what are we told? The mountain glaciers are melting, the glaciers are melting, melting, Melting, MELTING!

You aren't just told that. It is actually happening.

Why? Because the spring, summer, and fall is getting warmer, not because there is necessarily less snowfall in winter. Glaciers melt in August not February.

From where you live, you should notice that Mt. Hood, Mt. Jefferson and the Three Sisters are getting more and more bare every year by late August and September. Even if they still get plenty of snowfall in winter. That is due to hotter summers and springs that come earlier than before. Surely if you are in agriculture you have noticed this, no?

Yes, I have noticed all of this. But if we are getting more snow, I haven’t noticed. In fact it seems we have been getting less.

And if we do get more snow in the future because of global warming, how would that extra snow not help glaciers?

[Ken]

And yet what are we told? The mountain glaciers are melting, the glaciers are melting, melting, Melting, MELTING!

You aren't just told that. It is actually happening.

Why? Because the spring, summer, and fall is getting warmer, not because there is necessarily less snowfall in winter. Glaciers melt in August not February.

From where you live, you should notice that Mt. Hood, Mt. Jefferson and the Three Sisters are getting more and more bare every year by late August and September. Even if they still get plenty of snowfall in winter. That is due to hotter summers and springs that come earlier than before. Surely if you are in agriculture you have noticed this, no?

Yes, I have noticed all of this. But if we are getting more snow, I haven’t noticed. In fact it seems we have been getting less.

And if we do get more snow in the future because of global warming, how would that extra snow not help glaciers?

Glaciers are formed by snow pack that doesn't melt, but accumulates year after year after year in layers of ice for millennia.

If you have warmer summers and the snowpack completely melts by August or September than you won't get glaciers, and those that do exist from previous colder periods will melt faster than they accumulate.

In a warming climate we would still expect to get some monster snowstorms in winter due to increased evaporation and moisture coming in from the Pacific when the conditions are right. But we wouldn't expect the snow packs to last as long and melt faster in the spring. So the occasional monster winter snowstorm in places like Donner Pass aren't a refutation of global warming. They may be one effect of it.