Gender confusion

[Ken]

Well, here's an example where a teacher was forced to resign because he refused to use preferred pronouns and names.

https://apnews.com/article/indiana-teac ... f0f835ed08

What is your opinion on that? In the same circumstances as this man, I may have resigned as well.

Also, a biology professor was fired for stating that sex is determined by x and y chromosomes. That link was provided above, too.

Personally I think anyone who manages to get themselves fired over something so silly as names is seeking confrontation and making it all about them and not the students. Names are just names. So what? Every year I have dozens upon dozens of students who wish to be called by some name other than what is on their official record. Nicholas's who go by Nick or Niko. Guadalupe who goes by Lupe. Catalina who goes by Cata. Some who use their middle names or other odd nicknames. I have girls who's names are Andy, Michael, and Chas. Boys and girls who both go by names like Chris, Alex, Jules and Jesús.

Seriously, who cares. Kids have very little actual control over their lives. What is the point of being such a control freak about what names they wish to go by? Does this teacher refuse to vary from the official class roster for all kids or just the transgender ones? You have one chance to make a first impression with your class. Calling yourself out as an intolerant bigot on the first day of class is not a good way to do that. Not just to the kids you are refusing to name, but to all their friends and the whole class as well. An hour later you will be known to the whole school as "Mr. Bigot" as soon as the first kid posts about you on Snapchat. Two hours later it will get to your principal. The next day some kid will film you taking roll on his phone and post it to Tik Tok and then we will really be off and running. And for what?

And again, pronouns actually never come up in the classroom if you are addressing kids directly.

And as for that biology teacher? It is hard to know the context without seeing a tape or transcript of what he actually said. But again, silliness and seeking confrontation no doubt. Sex and gender are two different things and there are a lot more genetic permutations than just XX and XY as you well know. As many as 1.7% of the population have intersex traits of some sort from hormonal disorders to chromosomal disorders. So what was the context? I don't know. The story doesn't make it clear. But he clearly wasn't teaching actual biology if he was being so doctrinaire about it.

[Josh]

1. “This would never happen and is a made up issue.”

2. “If this does happen it’s your fault and isn’t a big deal.”

[Ken]

1. “This would never happen and is a made up issue.”

2. “If this does happen it’s your fault and isn’t a big deal.”

Oh, it is not a made-up issue. People do, indeed manage to get themselves fired for a lot of ridiculous reasons. This is apparently one of them. Apparently these teachers need a union to stand up for them but they are teaching in right-to-work states where they have no rights.

What Falco actually said was that the state could compel him to address someone as Mr. or Mrs. and I asked for an example of that. Haven't seen one yet.
'

[ohio jones]

What Falco actually said was that the state could compel him to address someone as Mr. or Mrs. and I asked for an example of that. Haven't seen one yet.

I thought you didn't use pronouns?

[Ken]

What Falco actually said was that the state could compel him to address someone as Mr. or Mrs. and I asked for an example of that. Haven't seen one yet.

I thought you didn't use pronouns?

Not when addressing someone directly in the classroom, no. Gendered pronouns are third person pronouns not first or second person.

And I generally don't talk with students about other students behind their backs which is usually just gossip.

[ohio jones]

Then why are you telling Josh "what Falco actually said" instead of letting Falco make that clarification?

[Falco Knotwise]

1. “This would never happen and is a made up issue.”

2. “If this does happen it’s your fault and isn’t a big deal.”

Oh, it is not a made-up issue. People do, indeed manage to get themselves fired for a lot of ridiculous reasons. This is apparently one of them. Apparently these teachers need a union to stand up for them but they are teaching in right-to-work states where they have no rights.

What Falco actually said was that the state could compel him to address someone as Mr. or Mrs. and I asked for an example of that. Haven't seen one yet.
'

The Mr and Mrs example was only intended by me as one example among many of addressing a biological male as a female, and I mistakenly assumed you were applying that "titles of courtesy" description to preferred pronouns, too.

Sorry for the mistake but my intent was to the address what I see as the problem of the state compelling me to use preferred pronouns as well.

Although one could do this willingly as a "courtesy" it's not true to say it's "my call" once I am compelled by law..

That was my point.

[Ken]

Then why are you telling Josh "what Falco actually said" instead of letting Falco make that clarification?

I am telling Josh what *I* actually said to Falco, which he mischaracterized.

[Falco Knotwise]

Then why are you telling Josh "what Falco actually said" instead of letting Falco make that clarification?

I am telling Josh what *I* actually said to Falco, which he mischaracterized.

Let's take a look at what was really said. Here it is —

a Christian is bound to speak truth.

"Good morning, Mrs. Smith" is not exactly truth, if Mrs. Smith, is in fact, Mr. Smith.

It is not true that I am not hurt by being forced to call someone by a preferred pronoun. In this case, you are compelling me to speak an untruth, against my conscience.

It is a courtesy title, nothing more. And it is actually not about you. You can decide to be courteous or you can decide not to be courteous. Your call.

What actually happened is i misunderstood Mr. & Mrs as both cases of using pronouns in general, as you can see from the context. (They're actually both nouns, I have since learned.) You responded "it's just a courtesy title" which perhaps you can see from context how I thought that you were characterizing preferred-pronouns in general.

It was a mistake, but an honest one.

[Josh]

In everyday communication I regularly use second person pronouns, and others use them with regard to me.

It is indeed a very new era when use of basic words like this are policed by the wealthy, well-connected establishment, at threat of common ordinary people losing their jobs or, in the case of NYC, prosecution and punishment.