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ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:29 pm I'm kind of curious why you quoted me in this post, considering that what you posted had exactly nothing at all to do with my post that you quoted.
I understand you think reading comprehension is hard, but still....

You and Ohio Jones were having a discussion about intent. You wrote:

Now OJ - you of all people? Are you really claiming this man "intentionally" hurt/killed these people? The testimony was that he would never intentionally hurt anyone, not that he would never accidently do so.

I mean, I get it that there is a level of recklessness that gets awfully close to intentionally causing harm, but words do mean something after all...

My post was agreeing with you that the law draws a hard line between intentional and unintentional homicide. It is either one or the other. The degree of recklessness might go to the severity of the crime of manslaughter. But manslaughter doesn't turn into 2nd degree murder simply because someone is being super extra reckless.

Professor Ken,

Are you sure you need to conduct your 1L required courses right now in this thread? The people you are speaking with may already be educated and understand things like "intent" and "negligence", in particularl oj, who has to think about this concepts as part of his professional certification for his day to day job.

Josh wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:32 pm

Soloist wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:46 am This case should be a wake up call to any Christian that we have serious problems with phones when one gets thrown in prison for crime of using them.

Any of us who use a phone in a non car safe mode while driving should repent.

If that isn’t enough, get rid of your smartphone while you still can chose it yourself.

Whoa brother. That sounds like legalism!

Maybe the problem here isn't the phone but the car. If he was reading sports scores on his phone while riding an Amish buggy I doubt he would have accidentally swerved into the oncoming lane and caused a crash.

Ken wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:39 pm Maybe the problem here isn't the phone but the car. If he was reading sports scores on his phone while riding an Amish buggy I doubt he would have accidentally swerved into the oncoming lane and caused a crash.

The difference there is he would have died rather then killed.
Still breaking the law.

Ken wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:35 pm

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:29 pm I'm kind of curious why you quoted me in this post, considering that what you posted had exactly nothing at all to do with my post that you quoted.
I understand you think reading comprehension is hard, but still....

You and Ohio Jones were having a discussion about intent. You wrote:

Now OJ - you of all people? Are you really claiming this man "intentionally" hurt/killed these people? The testimony was that he would never intentionally hurt anyone, not that he would never accidently do so.

I mean, I get it that there is a level of recklessness that gets awfully close to intentionally causing harm, but words do mean something after all...

My post was agreeing with you that the law draws a hard line between intentional and unintentional homicide. It is either one or the other. The degree of recklessness might go to the severity of the crime of manslaughter. But manslaughter doesn't turn into 2nd degree murder simply because someone is being super extra reckless.

Which is true and all that - but I was strictly referring to the common, everyday language use of "intentionally hurt someone."

Soloist wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:41 pm

Ken wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:39 pm Maybe the problem here isn't the phone but the car. If he was reading sports scores on his phone while riding an Amish buggy I doubt he would have accidentally swerved into the oncoming lane and caused a crash.

The difference there is he would have died rather then killed.
Still breaking the law.

Now you made me curious - is there any law governing mobile phone use while operating a human or animal powered vehicle?

Soloist wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:41 pm

Ken wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:39 pm Maybe the problem here isn't the phone but the car. If he was reading sports scores on his phone while riding an Amish buggy I doubt he would have accidentally swerved into the oncoming lane and caused a crash.

The difference there is he would have died rather then killed.
Still breaking the law.

I'm not aware of any law against browsing your phone whilst driving a horse and buggy.

Soloist wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:41 pm

Ken wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:39 pm Maybe the problem here isn't the phone but the car. If he was reading sports scores on his phone while riding an Amish buggy I doubt he would have accidentally swerved into the oncoming lane and caused a crash.

The difference there is he would have died rather then killed.
Still breaking the law.

My understanding of Amish buggies is that they are pretty self-driving and that trained horses aren't going to veer into oncoming traffic and commit suicide if the driver happens to be inattentive on a country road. So one could be one one's phone while driving an Amish buggy and not cause any crash at all.

But perhaps I am wrong about that. I'm not a horse and buggy expert.

Soloist wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:46 am This case should be a wake up call to any Christian that we have serious problems with phones when one gets thrown in prison for crime of using them.

Any of us who use a phone in a non car safe mode while driving should repent.

If that isn’t enough, get rid of your smartphone while you still can chose it yourself.

Sounds similar to Christ!

Mark 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

Ken wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:46 pm

Soloist wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:41 pm

Ken wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:39 pm Maybe the problem here isn't the phone but the car. If he was reading sports scores on his phone while riding an Amish buggy I doubt he would have accidentally swerved into the oncoming lane and caused a crash.

The difference there is he would have died rather then killed.
Still breaking the law.

My understanding of Amish buggies is that they are pretty self-driving and that trained horses aren't going to veer into oncoming traffic and commit suicide if the driver happens to be inattentive on a country road. So one could be one one's phone while driving an Amish buggy and not cause any crash at all.

But perhaps I am wrong about that. I'm not a horse and buggy expert.

I don’t see a specific law on it, I know people have been arrested for drinking while using a bike. I think that it would end up being a novel case. I guess I took it for granted but I don’t see anything on that.
Perhaps the government thought Amish don’t use smart phones.
As for the buggy, the horses go where they are directed. The most likely location for a head on wouldn’t be drifting but not turning with the road.