Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

[RZehr]

Sure, permission should be given. But there was no damage to anything with that fire.
I live in a wild fire prone area too, my house borders 80,000 acre national grassland where there was lightning fireS and controlled burns last year. I know what you are talking about.
Nonetheless, that particular case didn’t cause anything to worry about.

Much more damage was caused by rioters burning things they didn’t own without permission.

Over half of the state of Oregon is owned by the federal government. That is an economic problem for rural Oregon. It’s similar to an single person owning 52% of a state. It’s wealth consolidation and control.

No where near as much as if ADM or ConAgara owned it. You ok with me staking out 160 acres and moving in? Right next to you?

J. M.

Most of eastern Oregon was originally stolen from the Paiute people (as well as Shoshone Nez Perce, Cayuse and Umatilla people). If Federal lands are going to be disposed of in eastern Oregon, by right it should go to the descendants of the original rightful inhabitants, not the descendants of the "squatter" ranchers who stole it from them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Paiute_people

In fact, the Malheur reserve that was occupied by the Bundy folks was also stolen from the Paiutes who were forcibly relocated to the Yakima reservation in central Washington to make room for white settlers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malheur_I ... eservation

Sure, but “much of eastern Oregon”? Why stop rewinding time there, where it only impacts people in eastern Oregon? How about all of North America? Why should the government return eastern Oregon but not the land you own? Nothing is keeping you from giving title to your land to them, is there?

I’m not saying it should be given to rancher descendants.

The 80,000 near me was homesteaded, who then went broke in the dust bowl era, then the government bought it from them for pennies.
It’s complicated when people and nations operate outside of Gods way. America has been informed partially by Christianity, but not wholly, which produces some bastardized society where this nation took land by force, just about like every country, but then feels guilty.
Slavery is wrong, and the Christian thing to do is to make it right. But the left (which is pushing for it) doesn’t like Christianity. And without any sort of anchored morality, on what basis should wrongs be made right?
Christians ought to be natural allies of making wrongs right, but they are too invested? in right wing politics, or no politics at all to do it.

[Josh]

Ken, summarised: “anything I don’t agree with is Russian propaganda”

The CHAZ situation is becoming rather serious, with acts of violence (or should we say vigilante law enforcement?) perpetrated against an anarchist who was spraypainting. There are also allegations of sexual assaults happening within the CHAZ, much like happened at OWS.

This is great optics for Trump, so if you want him to win re-election, keep burying your head in the sand and say everything is fine. Most of America is deeply disturbed by open anarchy and insurrection, although personally I am not. This plays into the hands of a candidate who wants to run on a law and order platform.
Once car windows are getting smashed, people will want to vote for Republicans or for a center-right Democrat.

[Ken]

No where near as much as if ADM or ConAgara owned it. You ok with me staking out 160 acres and moving in? Right next to you?

J. M.

Most of eastern Oregon was originally stolen from the Paiute people (as well as Shoshone Nez Perce, Cayuse and Umatilla people). If Federal lands are going to be disposed of in eastern Oregon, by right it should go to the descendants of the original rightful inhabitants, not the descendants of the "squatter" ranchers who stole it from them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Paiute_people

In fact, the Malheur reserve that was occupied by the Bundy folks was also stolen from the Paiutes who were forcibly relocated to the Yakima reservation in central Washington to make room for white settlers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malheur_I ... eservation

Sure, but much of eastern Oregon? Why stop rewinding time there where it only impacts people in eastern Oregon? How about all of North America? Why should the government return eastern Oregon but not the land you own?

I was limiting my comments to Federal land in the west which is what you were talking about when you made the statement:

"Over half of the state of Oregon is owned by the federal government. That is an economic problem for rural Oregon. It’s similar to an single person owning 52% of a state. It’s wealth consolidation and control."

Which is, of course, true. But if we are going to dispose of Federal lands the rightful thing to do would be to return it to those it was stolen from, the descendants of whom still live among us, often in poverty. I expect they could do a better job of managing it than the Federal government does.

[temporal1]

No where near as much as if ADM or ConAgara owned it. You ok with me staking out 160 acres and moving in? Right next to you?

J. M.

Most of eastern Oregon was originally stolen from the Paiute people (as well as Shoshone Nez Perce, Cayuse and Umatilla people). If Federal lands are going to be disposed of in eastern Oregon, by right it should go to the descendants of the original rightful inhabitants, not the descendants of the "squatter" ranchers who stole it from them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Paiute_people

In fact, the Malheur reserve that was occupied by the Bundy folks was also stolen from the Paiutes who were forcibly relocated to the Yakima reservation in central Washington to make room for white settlers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malheur_I ... eservation

Sure, but much of eastern Oregon?
Why stop rewinding time there where it only impacts people in eastern Oregon?
How about all of North America?
Why should the government return eastern Oregon but not the land you own?

Yes. Any such return should be a worldwide return to some agreed date in history, then ALL borders and maps adjusted backward to that point.

The idea of how the world’s populations might have to “return home” all over the globe is an interesting vision i occasionally visit. Then, attempting to sift through DNA changes due to intermarriage .. how to untangle? Africa might suddenly become very light skinned. etc.

North Americans have a lot to learn. Still experiments in government. Nothing proven.

[Josh]

Whilst we’re at it, can Turkey return everything they stole from the Greek Orthodox and Armenia?

[temporal1]

Whilst we’re at it, can Turkey return everything they stole from the Greek Orthodox and Armenia?

North Americans and their our navel-gazing. No attempt at any other perspective.

[Ken]

Ken, summarised: “anything I don’t agree with is Russian propaganda”

The CHAZ situation is becoming rather serious, with acts of violence (or should we say vigilante law enforcement?) perpetrated against an anarchist who was spraypainting. There are also allegations of sexual assaults happening within the CHAZ, much like happened at OWS.

This is great optics for Trump, so if you want him to win re-election, keep burying your head in the sand and say everything is fine. Most of America is deeply disturbed by open anarchy and insurrection, although personally I am not. This plays into the hands of a candidate who wants to run on a law and order platform.
Once car windows are getting smashed, people will want to vote for Republicans or for a center-right Democrat.

Really Josh? In the hundreds of posts I have made on this site, this is the first time I have suggested anything is Russian propoganda. Are you suggesting that Russian Times is not? The US government seems to think that it is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_America

RT America is a U.S.-based pay television and internet-based news channel which is part of the RT network, a global multilingual television news network based in Moscow, Russia, and funded by the Russian government.

The channel is registered as a "foreign agent" with the United States Department of Justice under the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA). A 2017 report by the United States Intelligence Community characterized RT as "The Kremlin's principal international propaganda outlet" and said that RT America had been set up as an autonomous nonprofit organization to avoid FARA's registration requirement. RT America's estimates of its audience reach in the USA have been considered to be exaggerated

As for what is going on in Seattle? It is nothing that I'm supporting or defending. I think the whole thing is rather silly. But yes, you are right, Trump will likely blow it up into a big deal because he doesn't seem to have anything positive to run on anymore. And I guess demagoguing about a few protesters in Seattle is easier than doing the hard work of managing a pandemic and national economy.

[Josh]

An insurrection that takes over a police station is not a “few protesters”. The left and Democrats need to get their act together and control their radical fringe.

Or, don’t, hey, I don’t care. It’s your politics, not mine. I think armed insurrections are a bad idea. Really bad. Bad crooked police departments are bad too, but armed insurrections are even worse.

[temporal1]

i doubt boot paid any attention to the Oregon BLM incident. If the Bundys had been black, he would have been thoroughly engaged, outraged, fervently posting, at the time, and now. (this is my take on what’s being written at this time.)

You make up your own Boot and imagine him feeling this way or that way, projecting hate onto him. You could actually go back through the archives and see what I wrote at the time if you are curious.

But if you want to know what I actually think and feel, I'm right here, you can find out with a simple question.

you are free to reword in language addressing you. i did not intend to leave you out.
i’m not interested in prior Bundy discussions. i don’t recall any. that may be my imperfect memory, or i may not have been present. i was not engaged in the Bundy incident, i was aware of it. i was sorry a man was killed in such a setting that seemed it could have been EASILY avoided.

[Josh]

For the record, I expressed my disapproval of the Bundy affair whilst saying there were legitimate grievances that needed to be heard.

Same thing I’ve said about these protests. Legitimate grievances need to be heard. An armed insurrection in Seattle (of mostly white people) is not something I approve of. To be frank, it’s a hijacking of a movement to raise awareness of police brutality, and really plays into the hands of a politician like Trump.