Coronavirus Outbreak

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
Fidelio
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Fidelio »

Josh wrote:In some places water is naturally flouridated and those places had less tooth decay.

Fluoridated water has no health concerns.

However if it really bothers you, then I guess you could just filter your city water.
Colorado Springs has naturally fluoridated water. Not sure sure about the health concerns and is the added fluoride the same as the natural?

Regardless of whether it is good for teeth, the individual should have a choice of whether they want to ingest it. They could provide or sell bottles where you add drops to your drinking water if they feel it is that important. However, it is not so simple to say it has no health concerns. How are you or anybody else going to prove that? Consider this paper:

"The authors conclude that available evidence suggests that fluoride has a potential to cause major adverse human health problems, while having only a modest dental caries prevention effect. As part of efforts to reduce hazardous fluoride ingestion, the practice of artificial water fluoridation should be reconsidered globally, while industrial safety measures need to be tightened in order to reduce unethical discharge of fluoride compounds into the environment. Public health approaches for global dental caries reduction that do not involve systemic ingestion of fluoride are urgently needed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#
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Convert to Anabaptist truth early 2019; now associated (friend) with the Apostolic Christian Church of America.
Fidelio
Posts: 620
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Fidelio »

Furthermore, to quote from a good summary o fthe ethical issues


Organized dentistry, which includes the American Dental Association [ADA], the Oral Health Division of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [OHD] and state dental directors, is the only health profession that seeks to deliver its services via the public’s water supply.

The practice of artificial water fluoridation is the height of arrogance when one considers the following undisputed facts and scientifically supported arguments.

a) Fluoride is not a nutrient. Not one biochemical process in the human body has been shown to need fluoride.

b) The level of fluoride in mother’s milk is exceedingly low (0.004 ppm, NRC, 2006, p.40). Formula-fed infants receive up to 175 to 250 times more fluoride than a breast-fed infant if using water fluoridated with .7 or 1 ppm of fluoride. Does the dental community really know more than nature about what the baby needs?

c) Fluoride accumulates in the bone and in other calcified tissues over a lifetime. It is still not known what the true half-life of fluoride is in the human bone, but an estimate of 20 years has been made (NRC, 2006, p 92). This means that some of the fluoride absorbed by infants will be retained for a lifetime in their bones. Early symptoms of fluoride poisoning of the bones are identical to arthritis. Lifelong accumulation of fluoride in bones can also make them brittle and more prone to fracture.

d) Once fluoride is added to the water supply, there is no way of controlling the dose people get daily or over a lifetime and there is no way of controlling who gets the fluoride – it goes to everyone regardless of age, weight, health, need or nutritional status.

e) The addition of fluoride to the public water supply violates the individual’s right to informed consent to medical or human treatment. The community is doing to everyone what a doctor can do to no single patient. (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 000445.htm).

f) Fluoride is known to have toxic properties at low doses (Barbier et al, 2010).

g) Children in fluoridated countries are being over-exposed to fluoride as demonstrated by the very high prevalence of dental fluorosis. According to the CDC (2010) 41% of American children aged 12-15 have some form of dental fluorosis. Black and Mexican American children have significantly higher rates (CDC, 2005, Table 23).

h) A 500-page review by the National Research Council in 2006 revealed that several subsets of the population (including bottle-fed babies) are exceeding the EPA’s safe reference dose (0.06 mg/kilogram bodyweight/day) when drinking fluoridated water at 1 ppm (NRC, 2006, p85). The NRC panel also indicated that fluoride causes many health problems at levels close to the exposure levels in fluoridated communities (NRC, 2006).

i) An un-refuted study conducted at Harvard University shows that fluoride may cause osteosarcoma (a frequently fatal bone cancer) in young men when boys are exposed to fluoridated water in their 6th, 7th and 8th years (Bassin et al., 2006). Despite promises by Bassin’s thesis advisor (Chester Douglass) a subsequent study by Kim et al. (2011) did not refute Bassin’s key finding of the age-window of vulnerability.

j) There are many animal and human studies, which indicate that fluoride is a neurotoxin and 37 studies that show an association between fairly modest exposure to fluoride and lowered IQ in children. Twenty-seven of these studies were reviewed by a team from Harvard University (Choi et al., 2012). In an article in Lancet Neurology, Grandjean and Landrigan (2014) have since classified fluoride as a developmental neurotoxicant. All these papers can be accessed at www.FluorideAlert.org/issues/health/brain

k) For many decades no health agency in any fluoridated country has made any serious attempt to monitor side effects (other than dental fluorosis). Nor have they investigated reports of citizens who claim to be sensitive to fluoride’s toxic effects at low doses.

l) No U.S. doctors are being trained to recognize fluoride’s toxic effects, including low dose-reversible effects in sensitive individuals.

m) Dental caries is a disease, according to the ADA, CDC’s OHD, and the American Association of Pediatric Dentistry, and others. Fluoridation is designed to treat this disease but it has never been approved by the FDA. The FDA has never performed any trial to ascertain the safety of fluoride. FDA classifies fluoride as an “unapproved drug.

n) The effectiveness of swallowing fluoride to reduce tooth decay has never been demonstrated by a randomized control trial (RCT) the gold standard of epidemiology (McDonagh et al., 2000).

o) The evidence that fluoridation or swallowing fluoride reduces tooth decay is very weak (Brunelle and Carlos, 1990 and Warren et al., 2009).

p) The vast majority of countries neither fluoridate their water nor their salt. But, according to WHO figures, tooth decay in 12-year olds is coming down as fast –if not faster – in non-fluoridated countries as fluoridated ones (http://fluoridealert.org/issues/caries/who-data/ ).

q) Most dental authorities now agree that the predominant benefit of fluoride is TOPICAL not SYSTEMIC (CDC, 1999, 2001)– i.e. it works on the outside of the tooth not from inside the body, thus there is no need to swallow fluoride to achieve its claimed benefit and no justification for forcing it on people who do not want it.

r) Many countries (e.g. Scotland) have been able to reduce tooth decay in low-income families using cost-effective programs without forcing fluoride on people via the water supply (BBC Scotland, 2013).

s) While organized dentistry (i.e. the ADA/OHD) claims that fluoridation is designed to help low-income families, it is hard to take such sentiments seriously when,

i) 80% of American dentists refuse to treat children on Medicaid.

ii) The ADA opposes the use of dental therapists to provide some basic services in low-income areas.

Moreover, such a practice can hardly be considered equitable when low-income families are less able to afford fluoride avoidance strategies and it is well-established that fluoride’s toxic effects are made worse by poor diet, which is more likely to occur in low-income families.

t) Compounding the arrogance of this practice, neither the ADA, nor the OHD will deign to defend their position in open public debate nor provide a scientific response in writing to science-based critiques (e.g. The Case Against Fluoride by Connett, Beck and Micklem).

http://fluoridealert.org/content/bulletin_05-05-14/
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Convert to Anabaptist truth early 2019; now associated (friend) with the Apostolic Christian Church of America.
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Josh
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Josh »

Last I checked nobody is forced to drink city tap water.
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Szdfan
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Szdfan »

Josh wrote:Last I checked nobody is forced to drink city tap water.
Our rural area has higher than normal radon levels in its water supply (I think because of the ancient pipeline). A couple of times a week, we come into town and buy our drinking water. So there are options.
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Josh
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Josh »

Where I live, there just tends to be radon if you dig a hole in the ground. I try not to worry too much about these things or I’ll end up sick with worry.
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Wade
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Wade »

Fidelio wrote:
Josh wrote:In some places water is naturally flouridated and those places had less tooth decay.

Fluoridated water has no health concerns.

However if it really bothers you, then I guess you could just filter your city water.
Colorado Springs has naturally fluoridated water. Not sure sure about the health concerns and is the added fluoride the same as the natural?

Regardless of whether it is good for teeth, the individual should have a choice of whether they want to ingest it. They could provide or sell bottles where you add drops to your drinking water if they feel it is that important. However, it is not so simple to say it has no health concerns. How are you or anybody else going to prove that? Consider this paper:

"The authors conclude that available evidence suggests that fluoride has a potential to cause major adverse human health problems, while having only a modest dental caries prevention effect. As part of efforts to reduce hazardous fluoride ingestion, the practice of artificial water fluoridation should be reconsidered globally, while industrial safety measures need to be tightened in order to reduce unethical discharge of fluoride compounds into the environment. Public health approaches for global dental caries reduction that do not involve systemic ingestion of fluoride are urgently needed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956646/#
Typically natural fluoridation is calcium fluoride, as there is no such thing as fluoride. Fluoridated water uses sodium fluoride. But since they call it fluoride they can then show test with success from calcium fluoridation but use sodium fluoride because people seem to miss these details... They are two different chemicals and one is much more toxic...
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Szdfan wrote:
Josh wrote:Last I checked nobody is forced to drink city tap water.
Our rural area has higher than normal radon levels in its water supply (I think because of the ancient pipeline). A couple of times a week, we come into town and buy our drinking water. So there are options.
If it is well water, it is likely the thorium in the rocks. If you are still in Colorado, you do know that just about all granite is radioactive. This of course includes your countertop.

J.M.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Fidelio wrote:Furthermore, to quote from a good summary o fthe ethical issues


Organized dentistry, which includes the American Dental Association [ADA], the Oral Health Division of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [OHD] and state dental directors, is the only health profession that seeks to deliver its services via the public’s water supply.

The practice of artificial water fluoridation is the height of arrogance when one considers the following undisputed facts and scientifically supported arguments.

a) Fluoride is not a nutrient. Not one biochemical process in the human body has been shown to need fluoride.

b) The level of fluoride in mother’s milk is exceedingly low (0.004 ppm, NRC, 2006, p.40). Formula-fed infants receive up to 175 to 250 times more fluoride than a breast-fed infant if using water fluoridated with .7 or 1 ppm of fluoride. Does the dental community really know more than nature about what the baby needs?

c) Fluoride accumulates in the bone and in other calcified tissues over a lifetime. It is still not known what the true half-life of fluoride is in the human bone, but an estimate of 20 years has been made (NRC, 2006, p 92). This means that some of the fluoride absorbed by infants will be retained for a lifetime in their bones. Early symptoms of fluoride poisoning of the bones are identical to arthritis. Lifelong accumulation of fluoride in bones can also make them brittle and more prone to fracture.

d) Once fluoride is added to the water supply, there is no way of controlling the dose people get daily or over a lifetime and there is no way of controlling who gets the fluoride – it goes to everyone regardless of age, weight, health, need or nutritional status.

e) The addition of fluoride to the public water supply violates the individual’s right to informed consent to medical or human treatment. The community is doing to everyone what a doctor can do to no single patient. (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 000445.htm).

f) Fluoride is known to have toxic properties at low doses (Barbier et al, 2010).

g) Children in fluoridated countries are being over-exposed to fluoride as demonstrated by the very high prevalence of dental fluorosis. According to the CDC (2010) 41% of American children aged 12-15 have some form of dental fluorosis. Black and Mexican American children have significantly higher rates (CDC, 2005, Table 23).

h) A 500-page review by the National Research Council in 2006 revealed that several subsets of the population (including bottle-fed babies) are exceeding the EPA’s safe reference dose (0.06 mg/kilogram bodyweight/day) when drinking fluoridated water at 1 ppm (NRC, 2006, p85). The NRC panel also indicated that fluoride causes many health problems at levels close to the exposure levels in fluoridated communities (NRC, 2006).

i) An un-refuted study conducted at Harvard University shows that fluoride may cause osteosarcoma (a frequently fatal bone cancer) in young men when boys are exposed to fluoridated water in their 6th, 7th and 8th years (Bassin et al., 2006). Despite promises by Bassin’s thesis advisor (Chester Douglass) a subsequent study by Kim et al. (2011) did not refute Bassin’s key finding of the age-window of vulnerability.

j) There are many animal and human studies, which indicate that fluoride is a neurotoxin and 37 studies that show an association between fairly modest exposure to fluoride and lowered IQ in children. Twenty-seven of these studies were reviewed by a team from Harvard University (Choi et al., 2012). In an article in Lancet Neurology, Grandjean and Landrigan (2014) have since classified fluoride as a developmental neurotoxicant. All these papers can be accessed at http://www.FluorideAlert.org/issues/health/brain

k) For many decades no health agency in any fluoridated country has made any serious attempt to monitor side effects (other than dental fluorosis). Nor have they investigated reports of citizens who claim to be sensitive to fluoride’s toxic effects at low doses.

l) No U.S. doctors are being trained to recognize fluoride’s toxic effects, including low dose-reversible effects in sensitive individuals.

m) Dental caries is a disease, according to the ADA, CDC’s OHD, and the American Association of Pediatric Dentistry, and others. Fluoridation is designed to treat this disease but it has never been approved by the FDA. The FDA has never performed any trial to ascertain the safety of fluoride. FDA classifies fluoride as an “unapproved drug.

n) The effectiveness of swallowing fluoride to reduce tooth decay has never been demonstrated by a randomized control trial (RCT) the gold standard of epidemiology (McDonagh et al., 2000).

o) The evidence that fluoridation or swallowing fluoride reduces tooth decay is very weak (Brunelle and Carlos, 1990 and Warren et al., 2009).

p) The vast majority of countries neither fluoridate their water nor their salt. But, according to WHO figures, tooth decay in 12-year olds is coming down as fast –if not faster – in non-fluoridated countries as fluoridated ones (http://fluoridealert.org/issues/caries/who-data/ ).

q) Most dental authorities now agree that the predominant benefit of fluoride is TOPICAL not SYSTEMIC (CDC, 1999, 2001)– i.e. it works on the outside of the tooth not from inside the body, thus there is no need to swallow fluoride to achieve its claimed benefit and no justification for forcing it on people who do not want it.

r) Many countries (e.g. Scotland) have been able to reduce tooth decay in low-income families using cost-effective programs without forcing fluoride on people via the water supply (BBC Scotland, 2013).

s) While organized dentistry (i.e. the ADA/OHD) claims that fluoridation is designed to help low-income families, it is hard to take such sentiments seriously when,

i) 80% of American dentists refuse to treat children on Medicaid.

ii) The ADA opposes the use of dental therapists to provide some basic services in low-income areas.

Moreover, such a practice can hardly be considered equitable when low-income families are less able to afford fluoride avoidance strategies and it is well-established that fluoride’s toxic effects are made worse by poor diet, which is more likely to occur in low-income families.

t) Compounding the arrogance of this practice, neither the ADA, nor the OHD will deign to defend their position in open public debate nor provide a scientific response in writing to science-based critiques (e.g. The Case Against Fluoride by Connett, Beck and Micklem).

http://fluoridealert.org/content/bulletin_05-05-14/
Bring on general Jack D Ripper!

J.M.
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Szdfan
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Szdfan »

Judas Maccabeus wrote: Bring on general Jack D Ripper!

J.M.
Did somebody on MennoNet make a (GASP) Dr. Strangelove reference, which is a (DOUBLE GASP) Stanley Krubrick film?
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“It’s easy to make everything a conspiracy when you don’t know how anything works.” — Brandon L. Bradford
Fidelio
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Re: Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Fidelio »

Josh wrote:Last I checked nobody is forced to drink city tap water.

We are not dealing with a business, such as Pepsi Cola who may wish to sell bottled water with some additive, but we are dealing with the government, which is supposed to be working in our best interest (ideally speaking, of course).
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Convert to Anabaptist truth early 2019; now associated (friend) with the Apostolic Christian Church of America.
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