No human remains found 2 years after claims of ‘mass graves’ in Canada

[flyingnorm]

@nedflanders

@maxPC

@Josh

How many native people come to your church? your family gatherings? your children's weddings? your parents funerals?

[Josh]

@nedflanders

@maxPC

@Josh

How many native people come to your church? your family gatherings? your children's weddings? your parents funerals?

What’s your definition of “native”? We don’t have any active tribal governments here. Generally speaking in Ohio lots of people are a few percent native, some people are a lot more, like 25%. Most such people feel comfortable being assimilated yet also feel like they have a Native American / First Nations / Métis / Inuit / Alaskan Native / Indian heritage.

For what it’s worth, my ex wife’s mother was half Amish descent and half First Nations descent (half Cherokee, half Croe, but from the Canadian side of things and unrecognised in the U.S.) So it would be fair to say a number of native people were at my wedding, and indeed also attending the church I attended at the time.

Not sure what you are looking for here.

[NedFlanders]

@nedflanders

@maxPC

@Josh

How many native people come to your church? your family gatherings? your children's weddings? your parents funerals?

One of my closest friends who I talk to many times on the phone during the week has his native card. He comes to church once every couple months but feels hindered by the long drive to commit to full time coming. He asked me this week about becoming a member.

Another native man lived with his family on our property for a year a bit ago. He is scared to come to any church, but did accept Christ a bit ago(I’ve enjoyed our interactions) he has attended some of our family birthday gatherings. Recently at work he could tell I wasn’t my usual happy self and headed me off and gave me a big hug. I send him sermons recordings from our church and thanks me and says keep them coming.

Another died just a year ago who grew up attending a residential school of which he said was one of the best things in his life because he said it helped him get off the reserve and the drunk toxic abuse culture he seen all his 11 siblings go down. His words - not mine! He was often giving me sports equipment for my children.

I don’t have any children at marrying age and my parents are living.

And you know what else everyone of these men hate truth and reconciliation day here in Canada and on and on.

And I know more these are just the closest ones to me.

So what is your point???

[ken_sylvania]

@nedflanders

@maxPC

@Josh

How many native people come to your church? your family gatherings? your children's weddings? your parents funerals?

I'm curious how this is relevant. Are you native yourself?

[flyingnorm]

I am curious as to the personal background that informs your understanding of reality.

My plea is for compassion. Something that all believers in Christ agree to be a worthy lifestyle.

com·pas·sion
/kəmˈpaSH(ə)n/
noun
sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.

My current occupation is full time ministry in with First Nations people in Canada. The people you speak of are my brothers and sisters and have been for the last two decades.

For every person who speaks positively of their Residential School experience, many do not speak positively. I have heard all kinds of stories. Many times. Confinement, starvation, sexual violence, physical violence, manipulation, indoctrination, slavery, family separation, cultural degradation, and more. St. Anne school had an electric chair. The one Mennonite school had a "strapping chair".

I am sorry that your friends were suffering in their home community. I fail to see how that suffering is justification for other suffering caused by the Indian Residential School system.

It seems a compassionate heart would have compassion for both circumstances of suffering, rather than posing one circumstance as justification for another.

I am again calling for the closing of this thread due to the damage it will cause to the name of Christ. Mods?

[Falco Knotwise]

The electric chair was claimed to have been used between the mid-1950s and mid-1960s according to police testimony. Psychological abuse began with the act of taking the students who were small children away from their families. This abuse allegedly continued within the school.

It seems after all the claims of mass graves fell through the only kind of evidence for all this abuse you got left is rumor and hearsay.

The more you make these kinds of unsubstantiated assertions like this the less credibility you have for claims that are based only on testimony, imo.

I just don’t think it helps your case is all I’m saying here.

[Josh]

It seems a compassionate heart would have compassion for both circumstances of suffering, rather than posing one circumstance as justification for another.

This is an online discussion forum, and one where debate and discussion about facts and evidence is welcomed. A "compassionate heart" includes being able to talk, dispassionately, about actual facts and evidence in an online discussion forum in a subsection dedicated to talking about current events.

I am again calling for the closing of this thread due to the damage it will cause to the name of Christ. Mods?

As a general rule, MennoNet doesn't run with a censorship regime. I don't think that the name of Christ is damaged because of a discussion about mass graves that turned out not to exist. It's actually part of a healthy, democratic society to be freely able to discuss such things, instead of fear of being silenced because it might "damage" or "hurt" someone's reputation.

[Szdfan]

The electric chair was claimed to have been used between the mid-1950s and mid-1960s according to police testimony. Psychological abuse began with the act of taking the students who were small children away from their families. This abuse allegedly continued within the school.

It seems after all the claims of mass graves fell through the only kind of evidence for all this abuse you got left is rumor and hearsay.

The more you make these kinds of unsubstantiated assertions like this the less credibility you have for claims that are based only on testimony, imo.

I just don’t think it helps your case is all I’m saying here.

Not just hearsay --

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/st-a ... -1.4429594

Ottawa's lawyers initially fought claims from survivors seeking compensation for suffering caused by a homemade electric chair used for punishment and sport at St. Anne's Indian residential school, CBC News has learned.

Federal lawyers argued shocks from the chair did not qualify as physical harm despite holding evidence in Ontario Provincial Police documents that described its use at the school which operated in Fort Albany along Ontario's James Bay coast.

Ottawa was forced in 2014 by an Ontario court to release thousands of pages of OPP documents from an investigation launched in the 1990s into abuse claims at St. Anne's.

[Szdfan]

The electric chair was claimed to have been used between the mid-1950s and mid-1960s according to police testimony. Psychological abuse began with the act of taking the students who were small children away from their families. This abuse allegedly continued within the school.

It seems after all the claims of mass graves fell through the only kind of evidence for all this abuse you got left is rumor and hearsay.

The more you make these kinds of unsubstantiated assertions like this the less credibility you have for claims that are based only on testimony, imo.

I just don’t think it helps your case is all I’m saying here.

I also think the phrase "hearsay" is being misapplied here.

Hearsay is defined as:

Information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.

It's not hearsay or rumor when it's testimony from people about their own experiences -- that's testimony. The allegations about the use of the electric chair at St. Anne's and abuse across the Indian Residential School system are based on testimony from survivors, not hearsay. Testimony is treated differently legally than hearsay.

From the CBC article I cited --

Survivors described the electric chair as being "high-backed with steel arms," according to court files obtained by CBC News that include summaries of the allegations in the OPP documents.

One former male St. Anne's student, who attended the school between 1957 and 1962, said "a supervising nun would make him sit in an electric chair, tie his his wrists to armrests and administer shocks," the court file states.

"The nun strapped him in the electric chair and electrocuted him until he was semiconscious."

A female student, who attended the school between 1957 and 1964, alleged she was forced to eat her vomit and punished by "electrocution" in the chair.

There were also claims in the file that school officials let students use the chair to test endurance, and that it was used for fun.

"A male former student alleged that when he was six to 11 years old, he was tricked into sitting on an electric chair in the recreation room by a supervising nun and an unidentified religious Brother operated the crank which caused him to receive shocks," said the file.

Testimony from survivors and witnesses is not hearsay. It's not rumor.

The 2015 TRC report that called the abuse in the Residential Schools "genocide" was partly based on over 6,000 interviews with survivors and witnesses regarding the abuse they experienced at these schools.

Are you saying that all of these people are lying?

[Falco Knotwise]

It seems after all the claims of mass graves fell through the only kind of evidence for all this abuse you got left is rumor and hearsay.

The more you make these kinds of unsubstantiated assertions like this the less credibility you have for claims that are based only on testimony, imo.

I just don’t think it helps your case is all I’m saying here.

I also think the phrase "hearsay" is being misapplied here.

Hearsay is defined as:

Information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.

It's not hearsay or rumor when it's testimony from people about their own experiences -- that's testimony. The allegations about the use of the electric chair at St. Anne's and abuse across the Indian Residential School system are based on testimony from survivors, not hearsay. Testimony is treated differently legally than hearsay.

From the CBC article I cited --

Survivors described the electric chair as being "high-backed with steel arms," according to court files obtained by CBC News that include summaries of the allegations in the OPP documents.

One former male St. Anne's student, who attended the school between 1957 and 1962, said "a supervising nun would make him sit in an electric chair, tie his his wrists to armrests and administer shocks," the court file states.

"The nun strapped him in the electric chair and electrocuted him until he was semiconscious."

A female student, who attended the school between 1957 and 1964, alleged she was forced to eat her vomit and punished by "electrocution" in the chair.

There were also claims in the file that school officials let students use the chair to test endurance, and that it was used for fun.

"A male former student alleged that when he was six to 11 years old, he was tricked into sitting on an electric chair in the recreation room by a supervising nun and an unidentified religious Brother operated the crank which caused him to receive shocks," said the file.

Testimony from survivors and witnesses is not hearsay. It's not rumor.

The 2015 TRC report that called the abuse in the Residential Schools "genocide" was partly based on over 6,000 interviews with survivors and witnesses regarding the abuse they experienced at these schools.

Are you saying that all of these people are lying?

I’m saying if it’s still unsubstantiated with evidence, then it’s still “allegedly.”

If they confessed, I would certainly consider it substantiated.

Are you saying a lawyer or someone speaking on behalf of the church actually confessed to the existence of an electric chair at St. Anne’s?