Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
Soloist
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Re: Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

Post by Soloist »

Josh wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 8:14 am
Yes. I think it’s entirely reasonable to teach that cocaine and heroin are dangerous and can kill you.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to try to make it “safe” to shoot up illegal street drugs.
Yes but for the sake of determining the range of your extreme views, do you believe the hospital should stock narcan?, Acetylcysteine?, Insulin?,
Do you believe that accidental overdose from opiates should be treated? Is your view strictly about sin and your view is that all sinners should be put to death?
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Re: Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

Post by Josh »

Soloist wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 8:25 am
Josh wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 8:14 am
Yes. I think it’s entirely reasonable to teach that cocaine and heroin are dangerous and can kill you.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to try to make it “safe” to shoot up illegal street drugs.
Yes but for the sake of determining the range of your extreme views, do you believe the hospital should stock narcan?, Acetylcysteine?, Insulin?,
Do you believe that accidental overdose from opiates should be treated? Is your view strictly about sin and your view is that all sinners should be put to death?
I agree with the Bible that the wages of sin is death.

I think it’s ok for facilities like mental hospitals, ERs, rehab facilities etc to stock things to deal with drug addicts.

I don’t think Narcan should become as common as fire extinguishers.
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Re: Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

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Josh wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 8:38 am
I agree with the Bible that the wages of sin is death.

I think it’s ok for facilities like mental hospitals, ERs, rehab facilities etc to stock things to deal with drug addicts.

I don’t think Narcan should become as common as fire extinguishers.
So do you object to ems having it? Or good Samaritans? Or do you object to just yourself having it?

Most mental hospitals are against will, do you object to treatment of those who don’t want to be free from drugs?
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Josh
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Re: Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

Post by Josh »

Soloist wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 8:45 am
Josh wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 8:38 am
I agree with the Bible that the wages of sin is death.

I think it’s ok for facilities like mental hospitals, ERs, rehab facilities etc to stock things to deal with drug addicts.

I don’t think Narcan should become as common as fire extinguishers.
So do you object to ems having it? Or good Samaritans? Or do you object to just yourself having it?

Most mental hospitals are against will, do you object to treatment of those who don’t want to be free from drugs?
I am objecting to policy proposals such as “Narcan should be as common as fire extinguishers”.
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

Post by ken_sylvania »

Josh wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 11:52 am
Soloist wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 8:45 am
Josh wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 8:38 am
I agree with the Bible that the wages of sin is death.

I think it’s ok for facilities like mental hospitals, ERs, rehab facilities etc to stock things to deal with drug addicts.

I don’t think Narcan should become as common as fire extinguishers.
So do you object to ems having it? Or good Samaritans? Or do you object to just yourself having it?

Most mental hospitals are against will, do you object to treatment of those who don’t want to be free from drugs?
I am objecting to policy proposals such as “Narcan should be as common as fire extinguishers”.
Object away! I'm not aware that anyone here proposed such a policy.
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Josh
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Re: Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

Post by Josh »

ken_sylvania wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 12:09 pm
Josh wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 11:52 am
Soloist wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 8:45 am

So do you object to ems having it? Or good Samaritans? Or do you object to just yourself having it?

Most mental hospitals are against will, do you object to treatment of those who don’t want to be free from drugs?
I am objecting to policy proposals such as “Narcan should be as common as fire extinguishers”.
Object away! I'm not aware that anyone here proposed such a policy.
For some background, my county health department is trying to get these installed in public buildings (based on some kind of federal grant, I guess), including businesses, so I got a postcard asking me to sign up for the program. These narcan dispensers do eventually expire, so they would need to be inspected and replaced periodically.

I don't think this is a good trend. Fires have always happened. Drug overdoses from illegal street drugs haven't. I don't want to be required to install narcan dispensers in my office, store, or our church or our church's school. And these things often start "free" and down the road end up costing money. I pay for my own fire extinguishers including the cost of inspecting them and then recharging or replacing them.

I also don't want to be in the position of being expected to administer narcan. I'm not a medical professional, and despite the packaging saying "anyone can do it", I have my doubts.
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temporal1
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Re: Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

Post by temporal1 »

i’m not sure of everything Josh is saying about (crime+punishment) wrt illegal drugs, heinous crimes, NARCAN, etc., i believe he is attempting to know+do God’s will, so, i’m not rushing to judgment .. i appreciate Josh’s intent. i believe most on this forum share his intent, even with differing approaches. God’s will.

The reference to FIRE EXTINGUISHERS was made by the current U.S. DRUG CZAR .. speaking at a school district i’m familiar with,
in effect NORMALIZING drug abuse to children+teens, who shouldn’t know what any of it is.

In my view, “if this is how bad” public schools are, they should be shut down, and not reopened until parents, students, teachers, staff, admin., are ready+willing to EARN THE PRIVILEGE of public education.

The notion of “everyone is owed” .. is ruining the country.
The results of these wobbly SOCIAL ENGINEERING EXPERIMENTS are in: FAILED.


Human nature values that which is personally invested in. Freebies tempt sloth+sin. God’s design.
No human would design it so. Wisdom is supernatural.

P.19: NPR KUOW / Why does the US drug czar think WA schools should stock Narcan like fire extinguishers?”
https://kuow.org/stories/why-does-the-u ... inguishers
The United States’ top drug control official is in Washington state this week to sound the alarm on the threat of fentanyl — especially for kids this school year.

Dr. Rahul Gupta, the director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, carries Narcan with him at all times. It’s a life-saving medication that counteracts an opioid overdose.

Gupta spoke Tuesday at a back-to-school town hall at the Issaquah School District centered on fighting the nation’s growing fentanyl crisis. He appeared alongside U.S. Rep. Kim Schrier, a Democrat from Washington’s 8th Congressional District, and Martin Turney, chief of finance and operations for Issaquah schools.

Gupta’s visit comes on the heels of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data showing the death toll of the opioid crisis is rising faster in Washington state than anywhere else in the country.

As of Tuesday, King County reported 786 fentanyl overdose deaths so far this year — nearly 200 more than at this time last year.

And children are becoming more vulnerable to the powerful synthetic opioid that is increasingly being found in counterfeit prescription drugs. CDC data shows more than 1,500 kids and teens died from fentanyl in 2021 — four times higher than in 2018.

Gupta zeroed in on the dangers when kids buy drugs off the street — like Adderall to help them study before a big test or Xanax at a party — that could be laced with fentanyl.


One small thing everyone can do — from students to parents — is have Narcan on hand, just like he does.

“It may not be you,” Gupta said. “It may be your friend in school, or at a party, or at the mall. It may be a stranger, worse enough, that you may not know, but you can save their life.”

Gupta wants to see schools establish curriculum warnings against fentanyl and drugs in general, and make Narcan a visible fixture in schools, like a fire extinguisher or defibrillator.

Turney said all security staff at Issaquah’s middle and high schools carry Narcan with them, and staff spread the word about the risks of fentanyl.

“We try to make sure that students are aware of the resources available to them,” he said. “Over time, what we’ve noticed is students who are aware of an issue or they believe they can help, they just pick up and connect with those crisis lines and it can be a world of help to them and their fellow students.”
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Josh
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Re: Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

Post by Josh »

My point is that this is actual U.S. policy now, with plenty of funding to make sure Narcan is everywhere. (Hmm, I wonder who's making money from widely distributing Narcan?) Plenty of profits being made, that's for sure.

And I'm pushing back because, no, I don't think Narcan needs to be in every business, home, church, and school in America. I think Narcan should hardly ever be used. And frankly I don't think it's sensible that a large proportion of our ER and EMT resources are spent resuscitating drug addicts who want to get high. Those resources could be much better spent elsewhere. We need to have a national conversation on this, and it's time for some "tough love".
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Soloist
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Re: Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

Post by Soloist »

Sure let’s have some tough love. That’s taking away drugs!

Tough love isn’t letting them die in the street from a drug overdose. That’s incompatible just like just war with Christianity.
Obviously if you don’t have it, you don’t have it. Are you going to stand by and let a person die? Or attempt to help with cpr?
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Josh
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Re: Seattle’s (former?) Capitol Hill neighborhood

Post by Josh »

Soloist wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 2:37 pm Sure let’s have some tough love. That’s taking away drugs!

Tough love isn’t letting them die in the street from a drug overdose. That’s incompatible just like just war with Christianity.
Obviously if you don’t have it, you don’t have it. Are you going to stand by and let a person die? Or attempt to help with cpr?
I'm not going to go near a dangerous person who uses needles and will become violent and abusive if you interrupt their really good high. So the answer is "no". That person has already forfeited their own life, and I think it's bizarre to think that Jesus would have gone around adminsitering narcan - he didn't, and he already knew what Narcan was, and decided it wasn't something that needed to be part of his ministry on earth. It could have been, but it wasn't.
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