Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Ken]

This is a rather biased headline. When I was growing up, the Ukraine was just part of the USSR. Lenin divided the USSR into different states and one of them was the Ukrainian SSR, or “ УССР”. “Ukraine” simply means “border”. It was the borderlands of Russia with non-Russian countries.

Going back to the 1800s, many Mennonites settled in that area. They were invited by the Empress of Russia, Catherine the Great. We now call these people “Russian Mennonites”. They were never called “Ukrainian Mennonites”, because “Ukraine” as an independent country didn’t exist back then.

Looking to the present day, quite a few people in the Ukraine prefer to be part of Russia and democratically expressed their desire to be, starting in Crimea, and now also in the east. Instead of supporting the rights of self determination and democracy, the West and America decided not to recognise this.

I am very disturbed now to see many Republicans and right wing evangelicals openly calling for war. The Ukraine and Russia are not America’s sphere of influence and we need to stay out of border disputes there. We should not have interfered in the Ukraine’s elections in 2014. Doing so caused many people there to lose faith in their own democracy and prefer to ally with Russia instead.

Furthermore, entangling ourselves in these disputes does nothing except strengthen Putin’s political standing at home. This is a popular move in Russia. America fighting it simply means Putin can distract Russians from domestic issues. Why get involved and do this?

This is also a failure of American diplomacy. Instead of helping broker a compromise between the American-controlled client state of the Ukraine and Russia, American diplomacy offered conflict and threats. The bluff has been called. We need American leaders who can use diplomacy effectively, like Reagan did with Gorbachev.

Really Josh? You are taking Putin's side on all of this?

And it is indeed Putin's side, not the Russian side. Unlike Ukraine, Russia hasn't had free and fair elections in decades. We don't actually know what the Russian people want because they haven't had an actual say in the affairs of their own country in decades.

[mike]

At issue here is quite a few people in this territory want to be part of Russia. Russia has said they’re going to defend those people’s choice.

Yes, I am pretty sure the Ukrainian populace just loves what is happening.

[mike]

[Ken]

Today is going to be an interesting day in school. Vancouver WA has large Russian and Ukrainian immigrant communities. And I have both Russian-speaking and Ukrainian-speaking immigrant kids in my classes. I actually have no idea what the politics of their respective communities are but I'm sure I am about to find out.

[Grace]

Putin seems bound and determined to go down in history as the successor to Hitler and Stalin in terms of setting Europe on fire.

I agree.

Russia took over Crimea and Georgia under Obama...now Russia coming for Ukraine under Biden.

I have a feeling that Putin would never have risked this if America still had a big mouthed, bombastic, unpredictable, aggressive, wide awake leader, as its President.

Nevertheless we need to be in prayer for the country, all the leaders involved, including Putin.

This verse out of Ezkiel 38: 15 -16 came to mind where God says to Gog (of the land of Magog), “You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses, a great horde, a mighty army. You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud that covers the land”. Many believe Gog/Magog is Russia.

[HondurasKeiser]

Putin seems bound and determined to go down in history as the successor to Hitler and Stalin in terms of setting Europe on fire.

Could you explain to me how exactly Russia asserting historic territorial claims with the consent of the people who live there is the same as “Hitler” - who actually DID invade the Ukraine?

At issue here is quite a few people in this territory want to be part of Russia. Russia has said they’re going to defend those people’s choice. The Ukrainian government decided not to back off, even though they have absolutely no chance at winning a military conflict. And the West failed to help the situation diplomatically.

...sudetenland???

[RZehr]

Today is going to be an interesting day in school. Vancouver WA has large Russian and Ukrainian immigrant communities. And I have both Russian-speaking and Ukrainian-speaking immigrant kids in my classes. I actually have no idea what the politics of their respective communities are but I'm sure I am about to find out.

My wife taught some of those same families in school, 15 years ago, in the same community. I think when the little green men adventured into Crimea, her connection were quite sympathetic to Russia.
I’d be interested in which your students today support. Probably mixed?

[Josh]

Really Josh? You are taking Putin's side on all of this?

And it is indeed Putin's side, not the Russian side. Unlike Ukraine, Russia hasn't had free and fair elections in decades. We don't actually know what the Russian people want because they haven't had an actual say in the affairs of their own country in decades.

In case you didn't notice, the West toppled the democratic elections in the Ukraine in 2014 and installed their own puppet government. What is shocking is how poorly the West and America treats their client states. They've basically hung them out to dry - because the West doesn't have any actual ability or will left to get into a hot conflict with Russia. So Russia can basically do whatever it wants.

Other small countries are going to take notice and will decide to ally with Russia or China instead.

[Josh]

At issue here is quite a few people in this territory want to be part of Russia. Russia has said they’re going to defend those people’s choice.

Yes, I am pretty sure the Ukrainian populace just loves what is happening.

Well, Luhansk (1.4 million people), Donetsk (2.3 million), and Crimea (2.4 million) all have been lobbying for a while to become part of Russia, or else to be independent states with warm diplomatic relations with Russia. That's 6.1 million people out of the Ukraine's 41 million total, or 15%.

Do you have an argument for why these people should be forced to be part of the Ukraine? More importantly, exactly whose military is going to enforce such an occupation? Kiev doesn't have enough of a military force to do so, and the West has been either unwilling or unable to do so. When it came to Russia annexing Crimea, the soldiers literally tore off the patches on their uniforms and put on Russian ones. There was no invasion or occupation. The people simply became officially part of Russia, and were happy about it.

There are Ukranian nationalists to be found elsewhere. Amongst our own Mennonite history, we have a sorry chapter in our past when we ourselves aligned with Nazis in the Ukraine in nationalist action against the Soviet Union. They lost, badly. The nationalists this time simply don't have the numbers to win, other than perhaps holding on to a much smaller independent territory. They did not make their case to the people listed above for why they should be part of a united "Ukraine".

[mike]