Miller Farms fined

[RZehr]

I have no desire to return to the unregulated 19th century style food adulteration and filth and rot, as is well documented in England.
Couple food deregulation with today’s globalization and capitalism, and American food conglomerates ethics, our life expectancy would probably free fall.

Sure our food industry sells a lot of unhealthy stuff. Wait until you see what they do without regulation and oversight.

[steve-in-kville]

The USDA absolutely HATES anyone who they even suspect of selling raw milk.

No, it doesn't. I sell raw milk in my store. All the farm has to do is get the proper license and follow the right procedures. We have been doing it for years, as have many others.

There is a farm not too far away from us that sells raw milk. About every few months they have an issue and they can't sell it until they get back into compliance.

[Ken]

I have no desire to return to the unregulated 19th century style food adulteration and filth and rot, as is well documented in England.
Couple food deregulation with today’s globalization and capitalism, and American food conglomerates ethics, our life expectancy would probably free fall.

Sure our food industry sells a lot of unhealthy stuff. Wait until you see what they do without regulation and oversight.

This is the key.

You simply can't "relax" standards for one sympathetic Amish farm that you might like and trust without opening the door wide open for every manner of unsavory and unethical operator to drive right through. Not to mention a lot of ethical operators who would then feel the economic pressures to cut corners since all their competitors are doing it. And big corporate operations would do the same thing in a heartbeat.

You either trust the food supply or you don't. And that requires food safety regulations.

That doesn't mean there isn't room to fine-tune food safety regulations to make them more accommodating to smaller operators. But from what I understand they already do that through the HAACP program which doesn't impose one-size-fits-all solutions like used to be the case. I'm much more familiar with how it works in the seafood industry to accommodate small fishing vessels and small processors but I assume the same principles apply on land as well.

[Josh]

You simply can't "relax" standards for one sympathetic Amish farm that you might like and trust without opening the door wide open for every manner of unsavory and unethical operator to drive right through. Not to mention a lot of ethical operators who would then feel the economic pressures to cut corners since all their competitors are doing it. And big corporate operations would do the same thing in a heartbeat.

You either trust the food supply or you don't. And that requires food safety regulations.

That doesn't mean there isn't room to fine-tune food safety regulations to make them more accommodating to smaller operators. But from what I understand they already do that through the HAACP program which doesn't impose one-size-fits-all solutions like used to be the case. I'm much more familiar with how it works in the seafood industry to accommodate small fishing vessels and small processors but I assume the same principles apply on land as well.

If your idea of "food safety regulations" is "shutting down family farms", we're never going to see eye to eye.

This is a family farm that is part of a food co-op. It is basically telling people what they can do with their own business, their own farm, growing their own food to put in their own bodies. People should have a right to grow their own food and then eat it.

This isn't food being sold commercially.

[Josh]

I have no desire to return to the unregulated 19th century style food adulteration and filth and rot, as is well documented in England.
Couple food deregulation with today’s globalization and capitalism, and American food conglomerates ethics, our life expectancy would probably free fall.

Sure our food industry sells a lot of unhealthy stuff. Wait until you see what they do without regulation and oversight.

I have no desire to continue the corporate-controlled 21st century style mass production of monoculture grains, concentrated animal feeding operations, and distribution via fast food or other mass retail, corporate-controlled establishments. Our life expectancy is dropping as obesity and obesity related illness is rising.

The food industry really doesn't have regulation and oversight; big business is in enough control that they can do whatever they want. Small family farmers simply aren't the problem. Citizens should have the freedom to work with a small family farmer if they want to, particularly if they go to the trouble to form a co-op first.

This is big business using the government to try to put family farms out of business, period.

[steve-in-kville]

So this is a co-op? Missed that memo... that changes the rules a bit.

[Josh]

So this is a co-op? Missed that memo... that changes the rules a bit.

According to the farm, their human and chemical-free methods are the reason people seek them out and join their private food club.

I used to be part of a similar organisation in San Diego, we would find farms to cooperate with and do group buys and even sometimes go and pick our own produce. The standards were different than a typical commercial operation. For example, there was a focus on reduced use of pesticides for produce.

The USDA likes to go after small family farms because they can't defend themselves as well as big commercial operations which just pick up the phone and call the senator or congressman whose SuperPAC they made a $1 million donation to.

[ken_sylvania]

You simply can't "relax" standards for one sympathetic Amish farm that you might like and trust without opening the door wide open for every manner of unsavory and unethical operator to drive right through. Not to mention a lot of ethical operators who would then feel the economic pressures to cut corners since all their competitors are doing it. And big corporate operations would do the same thing in a heartbeat.

You either trust the food supply or you don't. And that requires food safety regulations.

That doesn't mean there isn't room to fine-tune food safety regulations to make them more accommodating to smaller operators. But from what I understand they already do that through the HAACP program which doesn't impose one-size-fits-all solutions like used to be the case. I'm much more familiar with how it works in the seafood industry to accommodate small fishing vessels and small processors but I assume the same principles apply on land as well.

If your idea of "food safety regulations" is "shutting down family farms", we're never going to see eye to eye.

This is a family farm that is part of a food co-op. It is basically telling people what they can do with their own business, their own farm, growing their own food to put in their own bodies. People should have a right to grow their own food and then eat it.

This isn't food being sold commercially.

As far as I can tell this case has nothing to do with people growing their own food to put in their own bodies. It has to do with people growing food and selling it to other people to put in their bodies.
When one person builds or grows something, then sells it to another person, we call that "Commerce." How do you figure, Josh, that this food isn't being sold commercially? Do you think it's just a hobby?

[Josh]

As far as I can tell this case has nothing to do with people growing their own food to put in their own bodies. It has to do with people growing food and selling it to other people to put in their bodies.

It was a private coop structure, people knew exactly what they are getting into, and had to sign up first.

When one person builds or grows something, then sells it to another person, we call that "Commerce." How do you figure, Josh, that this food isn't being sold commercially? Do you think it's just a hobby?

It's not being sold commercially, in bulk, at auctions, etc.

What's next? The USDA comes and regulates your back yard because you aren't running your backyard garden like a commercial regulated operation? Did you ever share one of your tomatoes with a neighbour? Whoops, that's "commerce". Better make sure to get USDA stamps on everything.

[ken_sylvania]

As far as I can tell this case has nothing to do with people growing their own food to put in their own bodies. It has to do with people growing food and selling it to other people to put in their bodies.

It was a private coop structure, people knew exactly what they are getting into, and had to sign up first.

When one person builds or grows something, then sells it to another person, we call that "Commerce." How do you figure, Josh, that this food isn't being sold commercially? Do you think it's just a hobby?

It's not being sold commercially, in bulk, at auctions, etc.

What's next? The USDA comes and regulates your back yard because you aren't running your backyard garden like a commercial regulated operation? Did you ever share one of your tomatoes with a neighbour? Whoops, that's "commerce". Better make sure to get USDA stamps on everything.

Would you please quit lying!