Illegal alien arrivals now greater than American births?

[Ken]

Since when did Border Patrol start entering Mexico and encountering potential immigrants before they cross the border.

Not that that makes a difference with regard to your point....

If you are captured by the border patrol 2 miles inside the border fence in Arizona, taken to a detention facility, and then expelled, are you an "illegal immigrant" that is displacing Americans? Or are you a deportee? Put another way, if you were captured by the border patrol and expelled from the US, where are you NOW? Inside the US or outside the US?

Which...is...why...I...said...it...doesn't...make...a...difference...with...regard...to...Bootstrap's...point...

Assuming Maria was not a US Citizen and not authorized to enter the USA, then as soon as she crossed the border she became an illegal alien. Even if she only just managed to get three yards in before Border Patrol found her.

The term used here is immigrant, not alien.

And people who were captured and expelled from the country are not, by definition, immigrants. They might have wanted to be immigrants, but they failed at it.

To use an analogy. You might want to get married. You might even find a potential wife and make it all the way to the church. But if she abandons you at the altar then you aren't actually married, even though you tried to get married and even took steps to get married.

A person who tries and fails to immigrate to the US is not, by definition, an immigrant. They are a deportee. And citing their numbers as immigrants is like citing people stood up at the altar as being married.

[Bootstrap]

In addition, the "Great Replacement" is a racist term coined in white supremacist and neo-Nazi circles and used to justify mass shootings in Texas and New Zealand. Unhinged racist shooters cite the racist Great Replacement theory as their motivation for mass murder. Recently the term has been brought into wider usage by Tucker Carlson who tried to normalize the term on his show. But that doesn't hide the racist origins and intent of the term. People using this term should know its racist origins and racist intent.

I think this really matters. If you use the same terms that white supremacists use to promote their causes, terms that are widely used in neo-Nazi circles, terms that mass murderers have used in their manifestos ... that gets attention in the wrong way. It can lead people to associate you with the people who created the term and promote the term.

Josh may have simply not known about these connections when he started this thread. He does now. He clearly does not want people to associate him with these groups, he has said that quite loudly.

[ohio jones]

At the end of the day, it's just comparing two trend lines. One, which is American births, is flat (as in, births that happen in America). The other, illegal alien encounters, seems to rising quite fast. I think it's fine to compare the two things. And yes, it does show a "replacement" is happening.

If American births would be declining at a similar rate to the increase in illegal immigrants, that would be a replacement. If American births (and deaths) are remaining basically constant and illegal immigrants are increasing, that's an addition or growth in total population. Not the same thing at all.

Calling them "trend lines" is disingenuous when there are numbers on the Y-axis. Illegal immigrants may well be trending upward at a rate similar to the number of encounters, that seems like a reasonable hypothesis, but claiming that the numbers are identical (and drawing sensational conclusions from overlaying the trend lines) is a stretch.

Is the graph a "bald-faced politically motivated lie"? Without knowing the intent of the author, I'm inclined to think it's incompetence rather than malice.

[ohio jones]

Josh may have simply not known about these connections when he started this thread. He does now. He clearly does not want people to associate him with these groups, he has said that quite loudly.

Josh, I think it would be appropriate to change the title of the thread; I can do that for you. Could you suggest a great replacement?

[Soloist]

think this really matters. If you use the same terms that white supremacists use to promote their causes, terms that are widely used in neo-Nazi circles, terms that mass murderers have used in their manifestos ... that gets attention in the wrong way. It can lead people to associate you with the people who created the term and promote the term.

Josh may have simply not known about these connections when he started this thread. He does now. He clearly does not want people to associate him with these groups, he has said that quite loudly.

I would point out the shoe fits the other way around no matter how much you deny it.

[ken_sylvania]

If you are captured by the border patrol 2 miles inside the border fence in Arizona, taken to a detention facility, and then expelled, are you an "illegal immigrant" that is displacing Americans? Or are you a deportee? Put another way, if you were captured by the border patrol and expelled from the US, where are you NOW? Inside the US or outside the US?

Which...is...why...I...said...it...doesn't...make...a...difference...with...regard...to...Bootstrap's...point...

Assuming Maria was not a US Citizen and not authorized to enter the USA, then as soon as she crossed the border she became an illegal alien. Even if she only just managed to get three yards in before Border Patrol found her.

The term used here is immigrant, not alien.

OK, let's look. Shall we.

Mary was born this morning. She weighed 8 pounds 3 ounces, and she's very cute. That's a birth. Maria fled gang violence and extreme poverty in El Salvador and was caught trying to enter the United States this morning. She was turned away. That's a Border Patrol encounter. (I don't think it is called an Illegal Alien encounter, she never managed to immigrate at all.)Emphasis added.

Huh, whad'ya know. "Illegal Alien," as in "Illegal Alien encounter."

[ken_sylvania]

I think this really matters. If you use the same terms that white supremacists use to promote their causes, terms that are widely used in neo-Nazi circles, terms that mass murderers have used in their manifestos ... that gets attention in the wrong way. It can lead people to associate you with the people who created the term and promote the term.

Yes, it can give people a ledge to grab onto to make that association. I don't think that's a good excuse though for whoever decides to make that association absent clear and compelling evidence.
I would wish that Christians could be cautious and careful enough not to jump to conclusions about people's associations just because they use a word or phrase that bears some resemblance to what might have been used by extremists. Not all of us have the time to read the literature of white supremacists or read the manifestos of mass killers, and therefore we might not be aware of what terms they have latched onto or tried to co-opt for their use.

[Josh]

Josh may have simply not known about these connections when he started this thread. He does now. He clearly does not want people to associate him with these groups, he has said that quite loudly.

Josh, I think it would be appropriate to change the title of the thread; I can do that for you. Could you suggest a great replacement?

"Illegal alien arrivals now greater than American births."

Something like that.

Given that Boot said Tucker Carlson has talked about the "Great Replacement" (I'll take him at his word, I don't have time to watch hours of Tucker Carlson videos), and Tucker Carlson is a mainstream commentator, I don't really see what the problem is with the term. The fact that some people complain anyone who disagrees with them is a Nazi or something doesn't mean they actually are. As far as I can tell, the idea that there is a rather large flood of immigrants making it much harder for people in America to form families, buy a house, and so on, is very real and is happening, and is certainly a "replacement". That's not a conspiracy theory - that's actually happening.

[Szdfan]

I think this really matters. If you use the same terms that white supremacists use to promote their causes, terms that are widely used in neo-Nazi circles, terms that mass murderers have used in their manifestos ... that gets attention in the wrong way. It can lead people to associate you with the people who created the term and promote the term.

Yes, it can give people a ledge to grab onto to make that association. I don't think that's a good excuse though for whoever decides to make that association absent clear and compelling evidence.
I would wish that Christians could be cautious and careful enough not to jump to conclusions about people's associations just because they use a word or phrase that bears some resemblance to what might have been used by extremists. Not all of us have the time to read the literature of white supremacists or read the manifestos of mass killers, and therefore we might not be aware of what terms they have latched onto or tried to co-opt for their use.

I don’t think Josh is a neo-Nazi or identifies as a white supremacist. However, there has been an effort in some conservative media to mainstream fringe theories like the Great Replacement and I think it’s completely appropriate to call it out when it appears in places like this forum.

Regardless of what Josh believes, the Great Replacement is a white supremacist argument and concept.

People make mistakes. I think the appropriate response when someone inadvertently makes direct reference to a neo-Nazi conspiracy theory is to apologize and reframe the topic when it gets pointed out. To me it’s odd when someone doubles down over something like this.

[Josh]

I don’t think Josh is a neo-Nazi or identifies as a white supremacist. However, there has been an effort in some conservative media to mainstream fringe theories like the Great Replacement and I think it’s completely appropriate to call it out when it appears in places like this forum.

Regardless of what Josh believes, the Great Replacement is a white supremacist argument and concept.

Sorry, but the pattern I have seen is that pretty much any opposition that the left wing doesn't like they simply call Nazi, white supremacist, and other epithets to try to completely discredit the opposition. That is the modus operandi from the left wing on this forum, and it's tiresome. Nothing in the chart I posted was racial in any way, so why do you keep trying to make it that way?

People make mistakes. I think the appropriate response when someone inadvertently makes direct reference to a neo-Nazi conspiracy theory is to apologize and reframe the topic when it gets pointed out. To me it’s odd when someone doubles down over something like this.

Because I don't think that everything that you don't like is automatically a "neo-Nazi conspiracy theory", as much as you want to claim some mantle of authority to tell the rest of us what to think.

Frankly, Szdfan, it's really odd. You and Bootstrap seem to be the resident experts here on white supremacy, neo-Nazis, and conspiracy theories. Why on earth is that? Why are these topics so fascinating to you? And why do you feel the need to bring this up over and over?