Gender confusion

[Josh]

The state certainly has a role in saying that children’s medical decisions and records should belong to their parents.

What is at question here is whether or not schools and clinics should be providing sex change surgery and pills to 12 year olds (or younger) and hiding it from their parents.
Do you think that’s a good thing?

[Ken]

The state certainly has a role in saying that children’s medical decisions and records should belong to their parents.

What is at question here is whether or not schools and clinics should be providing sex change surgery and pills to 12 year olds (or younger) and hiding it from their parents.
Do you think that’s a good thing?

Strawman much?

There isn't a school in the country that provides sex change surgery or pills to any age children much less 12 year olds. And I doubt there is any clinic in the country that does it for 12 year old children except perhaps in cases of inter-sex children.

I generally think it is a good thing for families rather than the state to make decisions about their own medical care. I thought that was your position too.

What I think is that the bar for state intervention in personal or family medical decisions should be very high and limited to cases of life and death such as parents refusing life-saving medical care for their children, or true public health emergencies like pandemics where the health and lives of others are affected. I don't think things like hormone blockers rises to that level of state interest. When it comes to most medical issues I think the state's role (if there is one) should be persuasive rather than coercive.

In cases where parents object or the parent and child are at odds, we have a legal process in this country for the emancipation of minors which seems the appropriate vehicle to use if there are irreconcilable differences between parents and children over this issue or any other issue. In my state that is at age 16 which seems appropriate.

[Josh]

Ken,

Did you read the article?

[Ken]

Ken,

Did you read the article?

The one about the parents who called the police because there was a rainbow flag in their 5-year old child's preschool?

[ken_sylvania]

The state certainly has a role in saying that children’s medical decisions and records should belong to their parents.

What is at question here is whether or not schools and clinics should be providing sex change surgery and pills to 12 year olds (or younger) and hiding it from their parents.
Do you think that’s a good thing?

Strawman much?

There isn't a school in the country that provides sex change surgery or pills to any age children much less 12 year olds. And I doubt there is any clinic in the country that does it for 12 year old children except perhaps in cases of inter-sex children.

I generally think it is a good thing for families rather than the state to make decisions about their own medical care. I thought that was your position too.

What I think is that the bar for state intervention in personal or family medical decisions should be very high and limited to cases of life and death such as parents refusing life-saving medical care for their children, or true public health emergencies like pandemics where the health and lives of others are affected. I don't think things like hormone blockers rises to that level of state interest. When it comes to most medical issues I think the state's role (if there is one) should be persuasive rather than coercive.

In cases where parents object or the parent and child are at odds, we have a legal process in this country for the emancipation of minors which seems the appropriate vehicle to use if there are irreconcilable differences between parents and children over this issue or any other issue. In my state that is at age 16 which seems appropriate.

Am I understanding you correctly, then, that you would object to legislation and policies whereby parents potentially lose access to information about, and authority over, the medical treatments and procedures their children are receiving?

[nett]

Ken,

Did you read the article?

The one about the parents who called the police because there was a rainbow flag in their 5-year old child's preschool?

What article was that in?

[Ken]

Ken,

Did you read the article?

The one about the parents who called the police because there was a rainbow flag in their 5-year old child's preschool?

What article was that in?

The Daily Mail article posted by Karsten upstream and commented on by others.

[Josh]

Rod Dreher, in his 5-alarm-fire, writing-style, has a deeply disturbing post this morning about the latest advances into the culture, particularly in schools and hospitals, of what is now being called "gender-affirming" care. It's gruesome so read cautiously.

Ken,

Did you read this article?

[Ken]

Rod Dreher, in his 5-alarm-fire, writing-style, has a deeply disturbing post this morning about the latest advances into the culture, particularly in schools and hospitals, of what is now being called "gender-affirming" care. It's gruesome so read cautiously.

Ken,

Did you read this article?

Yes. I don't see any evidence that schools are conducting surgeries and giving pills to students of any age as you claimed. Nor do I see any that hospitals are doing it for 12 year olds as you claimed.
'
I don't personally agree with everything going on in the medical world. I'm not going to come here and argue that we need to keep lowering the age of consent for transgender medical interventions. I gave you my opinion upstream which is that:

1. Parents and families should generally be to when it comes to all medical decisions related to their children with only two general categories of exceptions where the state should intervene: (1) life or death decisions such as withholding lifesaving medical care from a child, and (2) severe issues of public health in the case of highly communicable deadly diseases. Beyond those limited categories I don't think the state should have a role. Or if it does it should be limited to persuasion rather than coercion such as encouraging better diet and exercise, etc. rather than mandating it.

2. We already have a legal process under which minors can emancipate themselves from control of their parents. Generally it starts at age 16. I think that same standard and process should be applied to medical decisions.

[HondurasKeiser]

Rod Dreher, in his 5-alarm-fire, writing-style, has a deeply disturbing post this morning about the latest advances into the culture, particularly in schools and hospitals, of what is now being called "gender-affirming" care. It's gruesome so read cautiously.

Ken,

Did you read this article?

Yes. I don't see any evidence that schools are conducting surgeries and giving pills to students of any age as you claimed. Nor do I see any that hospitals are doing it for 12 year olds as you claimed.

Ken, no one claimed schools are performing surgeries, that’s absurd. Schools however do have gender closets where they can use chest binders, and clothing from the opposite sex that their parents might object to. Additionally, I’ve watched videos of teachers admitting they hide a students gender identity and preferred pronouns from parents. I know a teacher in rural Indiana that was instructed to do this by his school district.

As for medical intervention at a young age? Your comment is flatly false and another of example of waving off evidence that doesn’t conform to your argument or preferred outcome. I just watch a video conversation between Dan Frankel and Dr Gerald Montano of the Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh. In which he admits that they “begin the conversation about puberty blockers” as young as 10 and that it’s important to administer said blockers once puberty starts. They also perform “top surgeries” read breast removal or adding on children as young as 16.

You can continue to obfuscate and diminish and misdirect, but this is happening, it’s a concerted effort coming at children from many different institutions and it’s flat.