Paramedics Found Guilty

[Josh]

You know what would have led to the victim staying alive?

When detained by police, immediately submit to arrest like the rest of us do at a traffic stop instead of arguing and fighting.

End of discussion.

[AnthonyMartin]

You know what would have led to the victim staying alive?

When detained by police, immediately submit to arrest like the rest of us do at a traffic stop instead of arguing and fighting.

End of discussion.

That doesn’t help answer how to hold these paramedics accountable for an egregious med error. Criminal charges is what has me uneasy here.

[Josh]

You know what would have led to the victim staying alive?

When detained by police, immediately submit to arrest like the rest of us do at a traffic stop instead of arguing and fighting.

End of discussion.

That doesn’t help answer how to hold these paramedics accountable for an egregious med error. Criminal charges is what has me uneasy here.

Medical negligence / malpractice would seem proper to me.

If the focus is on saving lives, there needs to be training in school etc about how to immediately submit to being pulled over and/or arrested. Police wear body cams and abuses or violations of civil rights can be sorted out in court. During an arrest is not the time to resist.

[Ken]

You know what would have led to the victim staying alive?

When detained by police, immediately submit to arrest like the rest of us do at a traffic stop instead of arguing and fighting.

End of discussion.

It is all on tape.

He wasn't moving when the paramedics overdosed him with ketamine.

[justme]

as far as i am aware, neither Ken nor Josh have worked in the EMS field.
that means their comments hold less significance to me than those of Anthony, or steve, or any of the others who are part of fire and ems.

[Josh]

You know what would have led to the victim staying alive?

When detained by police, immediately submit to arrest like the rest of us do at a traffic stop instead of arguing and fighting.

End of discussion.

It is all on tape.

He wasn't moving when the paramedics overdosed him with ketamine.

So why did he need to be subdued at all?

[Ken]

You know what would have led to the victim staying alive?

When detained by police, immediately submit to arrest like the rest of us do at a traffic stop instead of arguing and fighting.

End of discussion.

It is all on tape.

He wasn't moving when the paramedics overdosed him with ketamine.

So why did he need to be subdued at all?

He didn’t. He was an autistic or mentally handicapped guy minding his own business and walking home from the store and the cops assaulted and killed him for no reason. It is all on tape.

[Soloist]

The thing is… EMTs have flowsheet they follow. They are directly supervised by law under an ER doctor. They don’t make assessments and treat based off what they think is best, they make assessments and treat based off of what the doctor has previously established. If they were denied the ability to examine the patient as they seem to claim, then it would seem that the responsibility shifted to the police.

They are not supposed to get involved if it is not safe for them to do so… perhaps there were different requirements and regulations governing them, but this is all what I was taught as an EMT.

If they provided medicine without assessing the patient strictly based off of a police officers assessment, and they were not given the authority or capability to assess the patient they should’ve contacted the overseeing doctor for instructions. Perhaps they had a relationship with the police and this was somewhat of a routine thing that happened… we don’t have any of those details and I don’t really care to go looking into it.
If they provided a medication without a direct doctors order, without assessing to follow previous established treatment guidelines, they are liable. I would also question them being criminally liable though.

I am open to being wrong on my understanding of EMS, I was a EMT-B back in 2010 so maybe some things have changed.
If as a nurse I treated without assessment data, I absolutely would be liable. But I don’t know that I would be criminally liable. That would carry with it several other questions as to what happened.

[Josh]

It is all on tape.

He wasn't moving when the paramedics overdosed him with ketamine.

So why did he need to be subdued at all?

He didn’t. He was an autistic or mentally handicapped guy minding his own business and walking home from the store and the cops assaulted and killed him for no reason. It is all on tape.

It is on tape. And watching it is why I say young people need training in how to behave when they’re told to identify themselves and if they are detained or arrested.

Instead, there are myriads of examples of people turning getting pulled over for a $100 ticket into ending up getting arrested and charged with resisting arrested and assaulting an officer. That’s not good at all, yet that’s where society is heading.

Police do I have a right to ask a suspect to identify themselves (and conduct a Terry stop to frisk someone for weapons). I have been in that situation myself. You know what I didn’t do? Start arguing and then fight back at the cop.

[Judas Maccabeus]

as far as i am aware, neither Ken nor Josh have worked in the EMS field.
that means their comments hold less significance to me than those of Anthony, or steve, or any of the others who are part of fire and ems.

I, myself, am wondering if the doc in the ER, or whoever they were operating under the authority of authorized that? I am also a bit surprised that a cop would be attempting to dictate treatment.

Only thing I remember that is even close to this is, in my younger days when I made extra money working er, ( x-ray and help out wherever) a sheriff’s deputy trying to tell an er doc he needed to sedate someone he had brought in. Doc told him the length of the pier he could take a walk off of.