Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Josh]

Up next, certain MennoNet posters will defend General Sherman burning down Atlanta.

[Soloist]

Up next, certain MennoNet posters will defend General Sherman burning down Atlanta.

Has anything good come out of there since he burned it?

[GaryK]

Up next, certain MennoNet posters will defend General Sherman burning down Atlanta.

Has anything good come out of there since he burned it?

The best part about Atlanta are the roads leading out of it. I rediscover this every time I go the the Atlanta Farmers Market for produce.

[Ken]

Up next, certain MennoNet posters will defend General Sherman burning down Atlanta.

I'm waiting for Biblical literalists such as yourself to defend slavery.

Which is what that unpleasantness was all about.

[Theophilos]

A recent news update about Anabaptist COs in Ukraine

. Dear Brothers and sisters!
URGENT
We ask you to pray and, if possible, call TKTs in the village of Zarechnoe, Varasski Region, Rovenski Oblast. Phone number of TKTs: +38 (03632) 30349. The number of the main deputy of the war commission, Vladimir Nikolaevich Bokii +380689092556
At this time our brother Nazar sergeiivich Melnik, born in 1996, church member in the city of Sarn, is at TKTs. Two hours ago they grabbed him from the road. They took his phone away. They are forcing him into military service. He was already at this TKTs in 2023 and at that that time he wrote a personal statement and brought a letter stating that he is a church member. But all arguments have had no effect. At the present time they are forcing him to sign the combat agenda. May God bless you! Do not be indifferent.

[Soloist]

A recent news update about Anabaptist COs in Ukraine

. Dear Brothers and sisters!
URGENT
We ask you to pray and, if possible, call TKTs in the village of Zarechnoe, Varasski Region, Rovenski Oblast. Phone number of TKTs: +38 (03632) 30349. The number of the main deputy of the war commission, Vladimir Nikolaevich Bokii +380689092556
At this time our brother Nazar sergeiivich Melnik, born in 1996, church member in the city of Sarn, is at TKTs. Two hours ago they grabbed him from the road. They took his phone away. They are forcing him into military service. He was already at this TKTs in 2023 and at that that time he wrote a personal statement and brought a letter stating that he is a church member. But all arguments have had no effect. At the present time they are forcing him to sign the combat agenda. May God bless you! Do not be indifferent.

And this is where the church shines brightest. The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church. No one can force you to shoot. They may be able to make your hand sign a paper, make you stand or wear a uniform, but they cannot get you to kill without you willingly compromising.

[Josh]

Up next, certain MennoNet posters will defend General Sherman burning down Atlanta.

I'm waiting for Biblical literalists such as yourself to defend slavery.

Which is what that unpleasantness was all about.

Do you have a justification for sacking and burning down cities?

[JohnHurt]

Well yes. But Chicago is not on Lake Erie. And it is 2 states away from Johnson's Island in Ohio.

They are still dead. They were starved to death, in prison camps, in both places.

Again, you are simply wrong. Lincoln didn't abolish the parole system, Grant did.

Grant did not make a move without Lincoln's approval. Lincoln could have ordered Grant to do the right thing, but he did not.

Grant was a drunkard, but Lincoln was a murderer.

It is a common practice of tyrants to give a bogus reason for their murder of other people to show that "they deserved it", or quote some extenuating circumstance like Fort Pillow to give a terrible sense of "justice" for their own wanton murder of other people.

Here is what happened at Fort Pillow:

The negroes at Fort Pillow were recent slaves, and totally untrained in how war was fought, or how to surrender.

When Fort Pillow surrendered, the Union forces laid down their arms. As the Confederates moved into the fort to take possession, some of the negros, not understanding what "surrender" meant, picked up their arms and started firing again.

The Confederates were enraged at this behavior and gave no quarter for a second surrender.

The "shame" of what happened at Fort Pillow is not a blemish on the Confederates, but on the Union Army, for ever taking slaves who could not even read or write, and putting a rifle in their hands to kill the Confederates, with no substantial military training on how to fight or how to surrender.

The reason these poor negroes died, is because the Union put them into a military situation without proper training. It is the fault of the Union.

Contrary to what the News Media tells you, the majority of white people in the South do not hate black people. We are friends.

The Confederates did not kill black Union soldiers because they were black, but because they did not surrender, and here is the proof that Fort Pillow was not about race:

White southerners have respected black people as people. Many of us in the South opposed slavery. Southerners had no reason to kill them based on race.

There were many black Confederate soldiers that fought for the South, and fought for the same reasons as the 95% of Southerners that did not own slaves but still fought against the Union. The black Confederate soldiers fought for their own freedom from a tyrannical government that was taxing them to death. White Southerners have always respected their black Confederate comrades, then and now.

I went to a Sons of Confederate Veterans meeting in Nashville TN about 20 years ago. There were 3 black gentlemen that were there. I asked about them, and found that they were the descendants of the free black Confederate soldiers that fought for the South. They would dress up in Confederate uniforms for the re-enactments, and blow every false idea the Yankee had out the window.

So this idea that Southerners hated the Negro so much that they killed them at Fort Pillow is just more of the same ridiculous Yankee propaganda, to hide their own war crimes committed by the Union soldier. For if the Yankee propaganda were true, the murder of black Union soldiers by Confederates would have happened in many places, and not just in one isolated incident. it is all a lie.

No, the Union was lying about Fort Pillow to cover up their own misdeeds. All of the Civil War dead, 620,000 people killed, people dying in these death camps, all so Lincoln could extract a tariff from the South. All these people dead, just for Lincoln to have money and power for his cronies in the North. If that is not the traits of a psychopath, I don't know what is.

And Sherman's "March to the Sea", where he burned a 60 mile wide path of destruction by deliberately targeting civilians and burning their farms and their houses, including the burning of several cities, is by definition a war crime. These people are nuts.

Abraham Lincoln killed more Americans than any other person that has ever lived.

[Ken]

Well yes. But Chicago is not on Lake Erie. And it is 2 states away from Johnson's Island in Ohio.

They are still dead. They were starved to death, in prison camps, in both places.

Again, you are simply wrong. Lincoln didn't abolish the parole system, Grant did.

Grant did not make a move without Lincoln's approval. Lincoln could have ordered Grant to do the right thing, but he did not.

Grant was a drunkard, but Lincoln was a murderer.

It is a common practice of tyrants to give a bogus reason for their murder of other people to show that "they deserved it", or quote some extenuating circumstance like Fort Pillow to give a terrible sense of "justice" for their own wanton murder of other people.

Here is what happened at Fort Pillow:

The negroes at Fort Pillow were recent slaves, and totally untrained in how war was fought, or how to surrender.

When Fort Pillow surrendered, the Union forces laid down their arms. As the Confederates moved into the fort to take possession, some of the negros, not understanding what "surrender" meant, picked up their arms and started firing again.

The Confederates were enraged at this behavior and gave no quarter for a second surrender.

The "shame" of what happened at Fort Pillow is not a blemish on the Confederates, but on the Union Army, for ever taking slaves who could not even read or write, and putting a rifle in their hands to kill the Confederates, with no substantial military training on how to fight or how to surrender.

The reason these poor negroes died, is because the Union put them into a military situation without proper training. It is the fault of the Union.

Contrary to what the News Media tells you, the majority of white people in the South do not hate black people. We are friends.

The Confederates did not kill black Union soldiers because they were black, but because they did not surrender, and here is the proof that Fort Pillow was not about race:

White southerners have respected black people as people. Many of us in the South opposed slavery. Southerners had no reason to kill them based on race.

There were many black Confederate soldiers that fought for the South, and fought for the same reasons as the 95% of Southerners that did not own slaves but still fought against the Union. The black Confederate soldiers fought for their own freedom from a tyrannical government that was taxing them to death. White Southerners have always respected their black Confederate comrades, then and now.

I went to a Sons of Confederate Veterans meeting in Nashville TN about 20 years ago. There were 3 black gentlemen that were there. I asked about them, and found that they were the descendants of the free black Confederate soldiers that fought for the South. They would dress up in Confederate uniforms for the re-enactments, and blow every false idea the Yankee had out the window.

So this idea that Southerners hated the Negro so much that they killed them at Fort Pillow is just more of the same ridiculous Yankee propaganda, to hide their own war crimes committed by the Union soldier. For if the Yankee propaganda were true, the murder of black Union soldiers by Confederates would have happened in many places, and not just in one isolated incident. it is all a lie.

No, the Union was lying about Fort Pillow to cover up their own misdeeds. All of the Civil War dead, 620,000 people killed, people dying in these death camps, all so Lincoln could extract a tariff from the South. All these people dead, just for Lincoln to have money and power for his cronies in the North. If that is not the traits of a psychopath, I don't know what is.

And Sherman's "March to the Sea", where he burned a 60 mile wide path of destruction by deliberately targeting civilians and burning their farms and their houses, including the burning of several cities, is by definition a war crime. These people are nuts.

Abraham Lincoln killed more Americans than any other person that has ever lived.

Wow John:

You hit the trifecta for southern revisionism. Is this the kind of stuff you learned in southern schools?

First the notion that Black soldiers were too stupid, uneducated, and untrained to actually fight as real soldiers is the oldest southern tripe in the book. That was the same racist nonsense that was perpetrated for nearly a century up through WW2 where the Pentagon established segregated units that they put under the control of southern White officers under the racist notion that only White southerners knew how to manage Black troops. Until Black solders finally had a chance to prove themselves with units like the 761st Tank Battalion and Tuskegee Airmen.

Second, the idea that there were Confederate units full of Black solders is one of the oldest and shoddiest of historical myths. Actual southern historians have long dispensed with such nonsense. https://www.battlefields.org/learn/arti ... and-legend or https://uncpress.org/book/9781469653266 ... federates/

This is not to say that no black man ever fired a gun for the Confederacy. To be specific, in the “Official Records of the War of the Rebellion,” a collection of military records from both sides which spans more than 50 volumes and more than 50,000 pages, there are a total of seven Union eyewitness reports of black Confederates. Three of these reports mention black men shooting at Union soldiers, one report mentions capturing a handful of armed black men along with some soldiers, and the other three reports mention seeing unarmed black laborers. There is no record of Union soldiers encountering an all-black line of battle or anything close to it.

In those same Official Records, no Confederate ever references having black soldiers under his command or in his unit, although references to black laborers are common. The non-existence of black combat units is further indicated by the records of debates in the Confederate Congress over the issue of black enlistment. The idea was repeatedly rejected until, on March 13, 1865, the Confederate Congress passed a law to allow black men to serve in combat roles, although with the provision “that nothing in this act shall be construed to authorize a change in the relation which the said slaves shall bear toward their owners,” i.e. that black soldiers would still be slaves.

Active fighting ended less than three weeks after the law was passed, and there is no evidence that any black units were accepted into the Confederate Army as a result of the law. Whatever black combat service might have occurred during the war, it was not sanctioned by the Confederate government. Even beyond the Official Records, there is no known letter, diary entry, or any other primary source in which a Confederate mentions serving with black soldiers.

Finally the idea that southern Black slaves were fighting for the Confederacy for.....how did you put it? for "freedom from a tyrannical government that was taxing them to death"

[Ken]

I guess this diversion really isn't about the Ukraine war and if you want to spin off to a separate discussion of the Civil War that's fine. Although you brought up the Civil War as an example of misinformation. It is certainly true that there is a marked similarity between southern revisionism and misinformation about the Confederacy and Russian revisionism and misinformation about their current war in Ukraine. That is certainly correct, although not in the way that you think.